size does matter, no not that get your mind outta the gutt |
size does matter, no not that get your mind outta the gutt |
Dec 26 2006, 05:53 PM
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#1
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 588 Joined: 27-February 06 Member No.: 8,316 |
so shooting or swinging at a fly on the wall drone is obviously harder than hitting a gd. I'm not one for poprtine over rules from that other game, but size categories might not be a bad idea, or at least some guidlines, for how hard it is to hit a smaller object.
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Dec 26 2006, 06:23 PM
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#2
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
I may be wrong, but I seem to remember there being targeting modifiers based on the size of an object. Or am I thinking Signature?
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Dec 27 2006, 04:24 PM
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#3
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,333 Joined: 19-August 06 From: Austin Member No.: 9,168 |
I don't see anything in the BBB.
That being said, I think a range from -3 to +3, based on size, isn't too outlandish. I'd allow things like Vision Mag to reduce those for smaller objects. |
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Dec 27 2006, 09:27 PM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 399 Joined: 27-May 04 Member No.: 6,361 |
There are indeed signature modifiers. Electric vechiles of standard size, metahumans and critters, drones, and mirco drones are hard to hit. Large and oversized vehicles(trains, zeppelins, airliners) are easier to hit. If you check out how sensor and signature are used in targeting, you'd notice this makes a big difference.
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Dec 27 2006, 09:29 PM
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#5
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,333 Joined: 19-August 06 From: Austin Member No.: 9,168 |
But signature only matters for the purposes of programs. It doesn't apply to a person shooting a gun.
Does it? |
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Dec 27 2006, 09:30 PM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 399 Joined: 27-May 04 Member No.: 6,361 |
Again, read how sensor and signature affect gunnery.
But otherwise, no. Doesn't stop you from applying something like that, though. |
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Dec 30 2006, 05:45 AM
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#7
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,408 Joined: 31-January 04 From: Reston VA, USA Member No.: 6,046 |
So, what were you thinking of? something like this?
+3 dice - huge target (blimp, broad side of a barn, juggernaut, etc.) +2 dice - vehicle size (tank, semi, car, behemoth) +1 dice - giant meta size (troll, bandersnatch, horse, piasma/bear) -1 dice - tiny meta size (gnome meta-varient, small child, satyr, large dog, doberman drone) -2 dice - football sized target (bat/bird, housecat, corpselight, small hoverdrone) -3 dice - insect sized target (mini-grenade, ghede fly) |
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Dec 30 2006, 05:53 AM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 732 Joined: 1-December 06 Member No.: 10,116 |
Yeah see that sort of thing might make some sense. It would also in my oppinion apply with perception modifiers. Afterall it's alot easier to notice that a tank is driving towards you than it is to notice that a fly has just come into the room and landed on the ceiling. I wouldnt be too supprised if one of the later books, most likely arsenal added in a bigger modifier table. |
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Jan 1 2007, 02:34 AM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 548 Joined: 21-December 06 Member No.: 10,416 |
Target size does make a difference. An easy way to see this is to look at a car at about 50 feet. It would be pretty easy to just hit the car at that range. Targeting a window would be a little tougher. Hitting a door handle would be even harder. Trying to hit the key hole would be a real challenge. Going the other way, it would be easier to hit an SUV than a compact car, a truck than the SUV and house than a truck. |
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Jan 2 2007, 06:48 PM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 633 Joined: 23-February 06 Member No.: 8,301 |
Personally, if setting up modifiers for target size, I would want to make the normal range of metahuman sizes within the "no modifier" range. No bonus to hitting trolls, no penalties for dwarves. That's less about realism to me and more about avoiding adding any more intrinsic bonuses and penalties for metatypes.
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Jan 2 2007, 06:54 PM
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#11
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The Dragon Never Sleeps Group: Admin Posts: 6,924 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,667 |
So do we scale damage up and down as well?
I really wouldn't bother adding extra steps to deal with all this "It's bigger so it's easier to see and hit, but then do we scale down the damage because that .45 round is relatively smaller." stuff. |
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Jan 2 2007, 06:55 PM
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#12
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 223 Joined: 6-December 06 Member No.: 10,259 |
Uhm... Trolls have higher Body scores?
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Jan 2 2007, 07:03 PM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 633 Joined: 23-February 06 Member No.: 8,301 |
Yeah. As it is, the tendency of larger things to have a higher Body rating, which gives them more health levels and more dice to resist damage, serves as the means by which smaller attacks do less relative damage to larger targets. It works well enough for me. To-hit mods for size don't really hurt that or affect it in any meaningful way.
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Jan 2 2007, 07:05 PM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 588 Joined: 27-February 06 Member No.: 8,316 |
yeah That's pretty much what I was thinking of. I would definitely include all meta types (though not necessarily variants ) to be in the +0 category. |
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Jan 2 2007, 07:10 PM
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#15
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,150 Joined: 19-December 05 From: Rhein-Ruhr Megaplex Member No.: 8,081 |
I always used the fact that trolls aren't easier to hit than dwarfs as a kind of counter-argument to why troll sized weapons don't deal more damage than smaller ones...
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Jan 3 2007, 05:34 AM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 393 Joined: 20-June 06 Member No.: 8,754 |
Nice Apathy, I'm going to use that. Though I think dwarves should get the -1 modifier too.
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Jan 3 2007, 05:38 AM
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#17
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 393 Joined: 20-June 06 Member No.: 8,754 |
You could always say that troll weapons aren't significantly bigger than dwarf weapons - just the handles are. Trolls are stronger than dwarves so they typically do more damage anyway. |
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Jan 3 2007, 07:10 AM
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#18
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Target Group: Members Posts: 8 Joined: 24-December 06 Member No.: 10,446 |
Isn't the book just a guideline?
Make up a rule for the situation and keep to that rule throughout the game. |
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Jan 3 2007, 10:38 AM
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#19
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,498 Joined: 4-August 05 From: ADL Member No.: 7,534 |
-3 for a mini grenade is not enough
Please use the cover modifiers as orientation. Something like this: troll: +1 dwarf : -1 . . . football (european one): -4 mini drone: -5 micro drone: -6 fly: -8 Though, if you do that, you should give troll-designed weapons a +1DV modifer. (or/and use these rules: http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...=0entry453467 ) |
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Jan 3 2007, 09:00 PM
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#20
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 777 Joined: 22-November 06 Member No.: 9,934 |
Dwarves are smaller and have a higher body attribute... but in your logic they should have a lower attribute? |
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Jan 3 2007, 09:33 PM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 223 Joined: 6-December 06 Member No.: 10,259 |
Dwarves have a higher muslce and bone density. This is explained somewhere in canon.
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Jan 3 2007, 09:58 PM
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#22
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The Dragon Never Sleeps Group: Admin Posts: 6,924 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,667 |
So dwarf guns are denser to make up for the smaller size. |
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Jan 3 2007, 10:26 PM
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#23
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 548 Joined: 21-December 06 Member No.: 10,416 |
Troll sized guns would just have larger grips and dimensions, not necessarily larger calibers. However, a troll would probably be more likely to be using something like a .500 S&W than an elf or human simply because they are bigger and could handle such a monster more easily. Melee weapons would end up doing more damage, as pointed out, simply because they are bigger and stronger and that is taken care of in the damage rating already. |
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Jan 4 2007, 12:59 AM
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#24
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 393 Joined: 20-June 06 Member No.: 8,754 |
I meant melee weapons. I thought that was obvious.
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Jan 4 2007, 01:09 AM
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#25
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,150 Joined: 19-December 05 From: Rhein-Ruhr Megaplex Member No.: 8,081 |
I didn't mean melee weapons. Probably obvious, too :D.
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