sustaning foci Options

[sunnyside]

This isn't a new issue in SR4 per se however I'm hoping there is an SR4 solution.


The issue is sustaining foci. They're cheap enough to start with a few at character creation and to be bounded after a couple sessions with Karma. At that point the mage can simply keep casting spells through them until they get that armor 3 and increased reflexes 3 etc up and going.

Pretty soon they're more potent than adepts or sammies could ever hope to be. And that's before they start buying higher rating foci.

Just wondering what you think/do about that.

[lorechaser]

You're limited by number of foci you can bind and number of foci you can have active. You're also a candidate (I would say required) for focus addiction. And you set off a lot of warning bells.

If a mage in astral sees someone walking in the door loaded up with Armor 3, Increased Reflexes 3, and a couple other clearly combat related spells, even if you're just there to shop, I'm assuming magical security will go in to high alert.

All that being said, I'm very much in favor of the grounding spells through Foci and attacking active foci rules coming back....

[RunnerPaul]

Wards - Especially in the paranoid 2070s, they should be commonplace.

Background Count - Useful for reining in all sorts of magic-use balance issues, not just foci.

Patrolling Spirits/Astral Recon - Only really useful in curtailing focus use until the PC in question initiates and picks up the Extended Masking advanced metamagic, but still something to consider.

[Thane36425]

Focus addiction could be a real problem, eventually leading to loss of magic.

It is also correct that you stand out on the astral if you have a lot of foci. You could take the Great Masking ability to conceal them, though.

I've usually just had one or two foci, usually sustaining to keep an Enhanced reflexes and maybe one other active. Also, I'd generally only have them active when going on a run or the like rather than having them "on" all the time. A problem in an ambush sure, but better security and less chance of addiction.

[sunnyside]

The magic attribute limit, while good for keeping things from getting completly out of hand, still lets you get away with quite a bit.

And it's true that the mage either has to waste simple actions activating the things or they have to be less stealthy. That is something. Of course I don't think any of them are illegal, which you can't say for a lot of what the other characters are trying to conceal. Though those weapons would be "dull" in the astral.

However I'm interested in this "focus addiction." Did I just miss that in the BBB or is it in one of the supplements? Is it an effective mechanic?

[Demerzel]

An active focus can be targeted by an astrally projecting magician with a mana based spell.

So if your player won't turn off that Enhanced Reflexes sustaining focus ever, then just destroy it.

Give it an object resistance, couldn't be worse than 4, then any mage who casts a mana bolt with a reasonable force can destroy it from astral.

Key is don't let your characters sit around 24/7 with active foci. Just let them know they will get destroyed, and they will lose the Karma and nuyen investment. Simple as that.

[RunnerPaul]

[sunnyside]

[knasser]

Foci Addiction doesn't bother me. I have one that sustains "Alleviate Addiction" 8)

[Ranneko]

Also, with the sustaining focus you can get at chargen, you can only sustain increased reflexes 2 (Remember, the number of extra passes is hits - 1, capped at 4)

[Thanee]

[Glyph]

Sustaining foci are a trade-off. By getting foci, you are giving up a wider spell selection, higher skills or Attributes, or the bonuses that other foci can give you.

As far as increased reflexes, you can either start with 2 extra IP max (due to thresholds and starting availability limits), or wait until you can afford to buy and bond a higher-rated sustaining focus. The spell increases initiative as well as initiative passes, but does not increase the Reaction Attribute, so it is not as good as the sammie or adept version. Not to mention, it's a relatively high-Drain spell, and it's a pain to have to drop and re-cast it every time you go through a ward (assuming you don't have Masking yet). And it is vulnerable to dispelling. It should be vulnerable to astral combat, too, but there are no rules for it that I have found yet, beyond what happens when you try to take one through an astral barrier.

Armor is not a plausible spell to walk around with all of the time - it GLOWS, people! Even during combat, it is of dubious benefit, offering protection but inviting more attacks from enemies. But walking down the street with it? See how far you get.


So no, while sustaining foci are useful, they far from allow the mage to "overshadow" combat-specialized adepts and street samurai.

[Thanee]

[sunnyside]

Thanee. At least in the BBB it indicate the things have an astral signature. And hence implies they can be destroyed. However no rules are given, and it's sure to be a touch subject. A player might be OK with a level 3 sustaining focus getting wiped out wit ha threshold of 4 but once they have somethign like a level 6 power focus I think special rules are neccesary.

And if you need special rules for power foci shouldn't you have them for regular. In short you should be able to take them out, but I have no idea how I'd do it.


And yes they'll need to buy something in game to get the full reflex increase. However the level 2 increase is all most everyone else can get during chargen.

And level 3 won't take too long to acheive. And then you can use your old level 3 focus to make yourself invisible all the time or something.

*Edit I guess a bunch of us were typing at the same time. I suppose you have a point in that it glows.

A couple technical questions. On what glyph wrote

Armor spell plus invisibility. What happens.

It mentions what happens with wards in regards to being stuck in an elevator and such. Would things also be disrupted when casually walking through a doorway?

Also I've been assuming when you deactivate the things the spells stay inside. If you have to recast every time you deactive that makes them a lot more of a pain to use. That would balance them a lot actually.

[Thane36425]

There were rules for attacking and destroying foci in SR3. I don't have that book handy or I'd look it up. If you wanted to use that mechanic, it should be easy enough to translate it to SR4.

[RunnerPaul]

[Demerzel]

You can target an active focus with a mana based combat spells from the astral. I forgot it is not an object resistance, it resists with it's force.

[sunnyside]

[Fortune]

[Glyph]

Keep in mind that enemy spellcasters will not be too likely to use this tactic in combat unless the PC is lit up like a Christmas tree with several foci. Why negate a focus when you can stunball the mage and his buddies?

This would discourage people from keeping sustaining foci active all of the time, though, since it is a potential vulnerability. Otherwise, I would not use it too often or unrealistically, as it can seem like picking on the player. After all, it is messing up items that usually have a significant amount of money and karma/build points invested in them.


It still begs the question of how "wounded" foci are affected. I would probably take a page from SR3 and rule that they regenerate back to full force in a round if not completely destroyed. And you also may or may not choose to allow the affected magician to use counterspelling to protect his/her foci from attack (I would probably allow it).

[Faelan]

Well if Foci are anything like pattern items in Earthdawn, they are pretty tough little items.

What I find interesting is that so many are having a fit over a Mage having a sustaining focus. Seriously you might as well be arguing about making sure technomancers are in tech free areas, and street sams cyberware should just spontaneously cease functioning. If they pay the nuyen and karma, what is the big deal?

[Thane36425]

[sunnyside]

[Demerzel]

[tisoz]