Character criteque, Technomacers.... |
Character criteque, Technomacers.... |
Jan 5 2007, 08:03 PM
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#1
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Target Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 4-January 07 Member No.: 10,538 |
I need some help with a Technomancer character I am creating and looking for advice on the character build. What should I focus on? What should I not focus on? What am I missing that I realy should have? Thanks for the input in advance.
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Jan 5 2007, 09:11 PM
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#2
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
this seems to come up a lot, but really look at the resonance skill group. do you honestly care all that much whether you have decompiling or not? if you just take compiling and registering, you come out with an extra 8 BP. [edit] consider with the FAQ, you can thread as a non-action, beef up your attack form, and just nuke the sprite instead with a really high rating attack form that will be extremely difficult to dodge [/edit]
secondly, i don't think you need all those skill groups at 4... consider lowering stealth, for example. in fact, consider applying my previous comment about resonance group... how often do you feel you need shadowing and palming? given you don't have any combat skills whatsoever, and you don't need a commlink with any illegal stuff on it, i can't even imagine what you might need palming for... so there's another 8 BP. thirdly, there is no computer skill group. the computer skill is part of electronics. that's another 40 BP right there. fourthly, your CFs cannot be higher than your resonance. it may actually be worthwhile to boost your resonance in the long run, however. so either cut back on the CFs and get another 10 BPs, or pay another 25 (yes, that hurts like crazy) and get resonance 6 (which is probably on your list of things to get anyways, and certainly the reduced efficiency of buying resonance up is at made up for in savings on those CFs, assuming you want to get them up to 6 at least) now, depending on how optimised you want this character to be, you might consider going with ork as your race. you gain a point of body and 2 points of strength... and 5 BP. however, you would then either have to spend another 15 points on logic 5, or cut down to logic 4 (the main drawback being 2 fewer complex forms). if you do this, i recommend reducing logic, and drop 2 of your choice from browse, decrypt, scan, and track. additionally, i would recommend swapping one of those for spoof as well. all 4 of those are the sort of thing that you could get by with threading or having sprites use, imo. this would net you (assuming you boost your resonance to 6) another 27 BP... which conveniently pays for boosting your resonance to 6 with 2 BP to spare, though it leaves you with 1 edge (if you still have some points leftover after modifying, edge 2 would be worth buying back imo). of course, if the character concept calls for human, then it certainly isn't worth it to change to ork. i would also add another neg quality or two if i could... possibly drop codeslinger as well. maybe add on an addiction (hotsim VR or BTLs would be appropriate) or an allergy. i would also add in some ability to survive getting shot at: body 4 (which you will have if you go ork) allows 2 more points of armor (ie armored jacket). adding on dodge skill is the cheapest way to make yourself harder to hit (hint: you probably want to dodge in combat all the time, unless you intend to use drones or actually buy up some weapon skills. i recommend dodge at 1 or 2 dice, with a specialisation in ranged, personally). tying back in to negative qualities, you may even want to consider picking up an addiction to a combat drug of your choice. you may even want to consider picking up a point or two in some weapon skill, with a specialisation. specifically: 1 point in pistols (semiautomatics) gets you 8 dice with a smartlink. similar results will come from other weapon skills. just my thoughts, hope it helps :) This post has been edited by Jaid: Jan 5 2007, 09:16 PM |
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Jan 5 2007, 09:19 PM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 101 Joined: 30-December 06 Member No.: 10,493 |
First off, you're not using standard character creation rules, so you might want to explain if there is a limit on how many BP you can spend on any one thing.
As it stands, 1 more point in Charisma costs exactly the same as Natural Hardening, but does significantly more (1 more registered sprite, +1 to social skills). Not all Tasking skills are created equally! Decompiling is not very good. If you're getting attacked by a sprite, Compile one to fight it. The fade is the same as Decompiling, but you can use the sprite you compiled for other stuff. So your Tasking skills should look like Compiling 4, Registering 6, OR Compiling 6, Registering 4. No Perception skill? Huh???? Get at least 1 point in it. You can't be defaulting on that one. You're Sensitive and have a Weak Immune System. This can excuse dropping Strength to 1. You can always work out one play has started ;) You could drop agility too. Without any combat skills you won't be attacking anyone anyway. Then put the points you saved in Dodge & Perception. Maybe buy a point of Interaction (group skill) or Etiquette. What does Codeslinger apply to? Lastly, if I had 12 BP to buy contacts, I'd buy one at 6/6. [Edit] Looks like I was beaten to the punch. [/Edit] |
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Jan 5 2007, 09:53 PM
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#4
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Target Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 4-January 07 Member No.: 10,538 |
The GM is using 500 BP characters, so I thought I could only spend a max of 250 BP on ability scores with either one rating 6 ability score or two rating 6 ability scores. Everything else is fair game as far as allocating BPs for the character.
I know that Technomancers are not hampered by how many complex forms are running at the same time like a decker would be when running the matrix, so I maxed out the Complex Forms ratings to 6. However I then reduced Resonance to 5 to free up some build points, so this was off. It also felt like I needed 2-3 more complex forms like spoofing to really round out his matrix abilities, but the 10 max complex forms for a begining character was really happering me, so I was going to rely on sprites to fill in the gaps. The suggestion of getting of decompiling skill is a good one. This the first time running a technomancer I wasn't sure how often this would come up in a game. I figured when the sprites services were used up it would "disappear" back into the matrix. Can't believe I missed the Computer skill group snafu. Thanks for point that out. The Codeslinger quality gives a +1 die on a particular Matrix action. I wasn't sure if this was worth the 10 BP or not or just increasing either a skill or ability rating instead. I noticed in a lot of builds people like taking the combat paralysis qualties for additional BPs. How bad does this affect combat situations? |
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Jan 5 2007, 09:59 PM
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#5
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
not really. you had some new points to consider, some of which i intended to mention (specifically, the lack of any social skills whatsoever, as well as perception), and some of which i did not (natural hardening vs. charisma). mind you, if i was to offer further tweaks, i would probably drop codeslinger (in favor of specialisation of hacking or computer skill, which is 8 BP cheaper... but then, i'm not a huge fan of codeslinger, especially in a BP hungry build like technomancers. i probably also would have just not taken natural hardening. i also probably wouldn't have taken sensitive system though, because i like to put a little bit of light cyber into my TMs, even if it isn't strictly speaking a good idea as far as the character being effective). i would probably also pick up command as well, but that's just because i like to use drones a lot (and remote controlling drones is the source of almost all technomantic meatworld combat capability. heck, it's the source of almost all TM meatworld capability, period... ) [edit] i also can't help but notice that the build is 40 BP over budget... and also, on closer inspection, i'm confused why your living persona has a response of 5(6)[/edit] This post has been edited by Jaid: Jan 5 2007, 10:01 PM |
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Jan 5 2007, 10:14 PM
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#6
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
personally, i wouldn't bother buying a given CF unless you see it as something you will want up always, or if it's something you are likely to need in the middle of combat. so i wouldn't worry about decrypt, personally. nor scan, track, or browse... instead (as i indicated) i would go ork, drop logic to 4, drop those 4, and pick up spoof plus one other of your choice. personally, i would go command, but you may prefer something else (black IC type programs or ECCM would be my other top choices) codeslinger is incredibly not worth it, imo. 10 BP for +2 to one specific matrix action? no thanks. specialise instead. unless, of course, your GM is in favor of the horrendous broken cheesefest that is codeslinger(control device) that is... in which case it might be worth it. (wow... never noticed this until it occurred to me just now, but it turns out this does work if you strictly follow the rules and ignore what was probably intended entirely). as far as combat paralysis... i wouldn't recommend it. you don't have through-the-roof perception, and getting surprised likely *will* kill you. if you don't ever go anywhere in the meat, it might be more worthwhile, but that doesn't work as well in SR4 as it did in SR3... and not so good for a TM who is going to be taking real damage from cybercombat. |
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Jan 5 2007, 10:42 PM
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#7
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...I will say, 500 BPs works better than 400 for a technomancer.
I tried my best to make a decent Techno under the 400 BP limit & she still would be smoked by my Deck- er Hacker (old habits die hard) Violet until she got some more Karma and maybe took a submersion level or two. I agree, I would ditch the Codeslinger, and consider the swap the Natural Hardening for +1 to Charisma. My Techno, Akima has only the Cracking and Tasking skill groups. She has Electronic Warfare 4, and Computer 4 along with Pistols (Fabuki - She originally had the Eichiro Hatimoto) 3, and Perception 3 (approximating her original Otaku skillset - see below) She actually is a former Otaku which I played in SR3 who managed to survive the Crash. Unfortunately the GM would not let me convert her good Karma applied into additional BPs to reflect her more experienced level so I never played her (she had already attained her first Submersion grade). As a 400 BP character she would have been more an annoyance to the team since she would usually find herself hiding behind the Troll sammy anytime a fight broke out in the meat world. |
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Jan 5 2007, 11:12 PM
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#8
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,498 Joined: 4-August 05 From: ADL Member No.: 7,534 |
Actually, a 500 BP Hacker is a Streetsam with maxed Hacking capabilities. Such a guy eats 500 BP Technomancers for Breakfast (in everything).
Tip from me: Dont play a TM. With 500 BP you can play a Mage + maxed Hacker or Sam + maxed Hacker or Adept + maxed Hacker or whatever + maxed Hacker. |
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Jan 6 2007, 12:33 AM
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#9
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...I second that.
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Jan 6 2007, 12:52 AM
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#10
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Target Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 4-January 07 Member No.: 10,538 |
To: Kyoto Kid and Serbitar
Do either of you have a hacker character already made as an example other than what's in the BBB that you would post here? |
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Jan 6 2007, 12:55 AM
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#11
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jacked in Group: Admin Posts: 9,043 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 463 |
To add to that... The biggest problem I see with the TM is, that s/he can do pretty much nothing outside the Matrix. That's a severe limitation, since not all the time on a run (usually only a fraction of it) happens in the Matrix.
A hacker, OTOH, only needs a fraction of the resources to be reasonably good in the Matrix, and has a lot more other skills and abilities then. Bye Thanee |
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Jan 6 2007, 01:07 AM
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#12
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,498 Joined: 4-August 05 From: ADL Member No.: 7,534 |
Short guide to creating a hacker:
- buy all programs, agents, comlinks, and autosoft at the highest rating allowed for about 30 BP - buy the computer group as high as you are allowed (4 for 40 BP) - buy hacking , cybercombat and electronic warfare as high as allowed (6,4,4 for 64 BP) do what you want the BP left (about 270) (does not matter to hacking at all, but maybe you want to start a mage, or a sam, or an adept, or a face, as you wont have to spend any more karma to hacking, you are already maxed) *crack all your software as your first action ingame *buy agent 6 and an all 6 comlink as your 2nd action ingame *raise some skills if you feels so and grab some specialisation have fun with your maxed hacker OR, read my SHP which balances TMs (see signature) |
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Jan 6 2007, 01:23 AM
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#13
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...Yes, her name is Violet. I'll try to have her posted by tomorrow at the latest. I have to go back & do a bit of "deconstruction" since she has been in active play and has upgraded both herself and her link. |
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Jan 6 2007, 02:12 AM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 101 Joined: 30-December 06 Member No.: 10,493 |
If you want to make a successful technomancer, you focus on what you have that hackers don't: Sprites. You also have the advantage of not needing any cyberware at all, which can make you more subtle. And you can get 4 IP in VR. For combat, you have a retinue of bound sprites inhabiting drones. This can get brutal, and you don't even need to buy them. Just find any nearby vehicle and slap a sprite in it. Here is a 400 BP Technomancer. He's very fragile, so he has to stay out of the line of fire:
If you don't want to be a summoner, then you're better off not being a technomancer. |
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Jan 6 2007, 03:19 AM
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#15
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
not so. due to the crazy way command works, remote control based technoriggers are pretty good too. start off with resonance 6, thread up to command 12 (anything you do which uses command does not take the -2 penalty) control a vehicle with an effective attribute of 12 for everything. +2 dice for hotsim. so that's 14 dice before adding in skills... i recommend taking gunnery (ballistics) 6(+2), pilot groundcraft(spec of choice, probably wheeled) 4(+2), and pilot aircraft(type of choice) 4(+2). if your GM allows it, also take the above mentioned (slightly broken) codeslinger(control device). assuming no codeslinger, this will net you 24 dice on any attack using most weapons you can mount on a vehicle (only 22 dice for non-ballistic weapons), and 20 dice for vehicle skills within your specialty ("only" 18 dice for non-specialised choices). oh, and that 14 dice base would be their defense pool when they *aren't* in full dodge. you could theoretically also add in some reflex recorders, i suppose, but that costs resonance, and each point of resonance hurts. on the other hand, you can also have a machine sprite analyse the vehicle you're driving for a bonus too, while simultaneously riding shotgun (ie operating a second gun)... compare this to the best chargen rigger possible otherwise: gonna be an adept with control rig and a response 5 vehicle (specific only to that vehicle, the techno's is for anything), gunnery 6(9) (ballistic) +2, vehicle(specialisation) 4(6) (+2) running hotsim for a total of 22 dice with gunnery and 18 dice in the vehicle skill. probably costs a wee bit less, but still expensive. oh, and for a starting defense pool, the rigger is looking at 13 dice. of course, the adept has some room for fairly easy improvement if he can still a good drone (+1 response = +1 effective attribute), but then the TM has unlimited potential and is still starting off just a touch better than the adept. if we assume a non-awakened rigger, the comparison becomes more lopsided in the technomancer's favor too :) in point of fact, when it really comes down to it, TMs are really really good as a second hacker in the group. the ability to become sickeningly good at one specific area (admittedly at tremendous cost) is, in some ways, a bonus. (i believe i've thrown around some numbers for the cybercombat TM as well... the main thing is that when they thread their attack form, they start one-shotting stuff.) |
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Jan 6 2007, 07:54 AM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 101 Joined: 30-December 06 Member No.: 10,493 |
Good call, I hadn't looked at it from that angle. Is is possible to effectively command your sprites while jacked into a vehicle like that?
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Jan 6 2007, 08:09 PM
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#17
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
you're not "jacked in" to the vehicle. you're just sitting in the matrix, with some kind of virtual remote control interface. so you can command sprites just as effectively as you could if you were sitting in some other node. note that command sprites do get the command CF, and as such can remote control any turrets from the same node you are in. furthermore, the node you are in could be your "home node"... for a relatively low price, you can load up a commlink with all kinds of excessive defensive utilities and park your persona in that. since you don't need the node's resources for hacking or rigging, it is irrelevant that you're loading it up like crazy with IC/Agents. |
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Jan 6 2007, 08:29 PM
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#18
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...So I tried to insert Violet's stats using the Code tag, but all the spacing was whacked. How do you get nice even columns? [Edit] ...Hah! figured it out with the help from a thread in the Bug Reports forum.
Also have her background included in the spoiler below. [ Spoiler ] The original document was spell checked in Word. any additions made afterwards may have errors since for some reason PHP Spell freaks out on imported documents. |
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Jan 7 2007, 12:56 AM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 101 Joined: 30-December 06 Member No.: 10,493 |
Right, my mistake. Can a TM use his own response, or does he just need a responsive vehicle? It seems that if you slap a sprite into the vehicle, it uses the sprite's response. Does a TM rigger need Intuition for anything at all if she is using a sprite, and not jumped in? |
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Jan 7 2007, 12:58 AM
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#20
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,498 Joined: 4-August 05 From: ADL Member No.: 7,534 |
Depends on the mode you are using to controll the vehicle. (Jumped in, command per command programm, or command the agent)
No. |
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Jan 7 2007, 01:12 AM
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#21
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
a TM rigger could have all mental stats at 1, in fact. due to the way remote controlling is worded, your command program (or, in this case, CF) replaces all attributes. as such, a logic 1 rigger using a repair drone to fix something replaces their logic with command, adds their appropriate skill, and bypasses the need for mental attributes as well.
remote controlling vehicles is based purely on your command program/CF. as i said, due to the way it functions, a TM 'rigger' (they aren't really a rigger because technically they aren't rigging) can get a really high dice pool out of it. |
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Jan 7 2007, 01:15 AM
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#22
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,498 Joined: 4-August 05 From: ADL Member No.: 7,534 |
a jumped in rigger, due to the FAQ, does not need any mental attributes either.
BTW: I consider this command controlling hack broken and the command method an abuse of the system. |
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Jan 7 2007, 01:22 AM
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#23
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
yeah, it is a little cheesy. sadly, pretty much the only way to fix it is to completely remove the command program and instead have the person use their own attributes or their response... which means, you may as well just call it rigging, and get on with your life. the fact that the character is pretty much guaranteed to suck in every other way is a pretty harsh trade-off though. |
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Jan 7 2007, 01:27 AM
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#24
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,498 Joined: 4-August 05 From: ADL Member No.: 7,534 |
But that is due to the totally messed up TM generation rules.
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Jan 7 2007, 05:53 AM
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#25
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 775 Joined: 31-March 05 From: florida Member No.: 7,273 |
alright, i took and made a hacker and a TM using Daegans character generator. Honestly i think my TM is pretty damn good especially considering that its a straight build and actually is better than the hacker here they are
Hacker: Radical Edward Metatype : Human Mundane Attributes Body: 3 Agility: 3 Reaction: 4 Strength: 3 Charisma: 3 Intuition: 4 Logic: 4 Willpower: 4 Edge: 2 Initiative: 8 Essence: 4.045 Knowledge Skills English : N Engineering (Mechanical) : 3 Corp. Security Tactics : 2 Local Junkyards (Drone Yards) : 3 Computer Background (Hacking) : 2 Active Skills Computer : 3 Data Search : 3 Hardware : 3 Software : 3 Cybercombat : 3 Electronic Warfare : 3 Hacking : 3 First Aid : 3 Pistols : 3 Inflitration : 3 Perception : 3 Aeronautics Mechanic (LTA) : 3 Pilot Aircraft (Lighter-Then-Air) : 3 Pilot Aircraft (Remote Operation) : 3 Gunnery : 3 Positive Qualities Focused Concentration 1 Negative Qualities Addiction, mild: Matrix full immersion SINner Cyberwares Control Rig Commlink (4/5) Hot-Sim Module Protective Covers Cybereyes Basic System (Rating 1) Flare Compensation Smartlink Thermographic Vision Low-Light Vision Damper Sound Link Biowares Cerebral Booster 2 Sleep Regulator Weapons Ares Predator IV Silencer Quick-Draw Holster Hidden Gun Arm Slide 3x EX-Explosive Rounds (10 shots) 3x Stick-n-Shock (10 shots) Ares Alpha Sound Suppressor 4x Stick-n-Shock (10 shots) 4x EX-Explosive Rounds (10 shots) 4x Flash-Bang 4x Fragmentation 4x High Explosive Grenades 4x Narcojet Gas Grenade Armors Chameleon Suit Armor Clothing Leather Jacket Urban Explorer Jumpsuit Vehicles Commlinks Satellite Link Skinlink Commlink : Meta Link Response Upgrade (5) Signal Upgrade (5) OS : Vector Xim Firewall (Rating 5) System (Rating 5) Subvocal Microphone ECCM (Rating 6) Agent/IC/Pilot (Rating 4) Clearsight Autosoft (Rating 5) Defense Autosoft (Rating 5) Electronic Warfare Autosoft (Rating 5) Maneuver (Vehicle Type) Autosoft (Rating 5) Targeting (Weapon) Autosoft (Rating 5) Equipments DocWagon Contract (Platinum- per Year) Flashlight Contacts Contacts Josephe (L:1 C:1) fixer Technomancer: Anne "Anime" Kidd Metatype : Human Technomancer Attributes Body: 3 Agility: 3 Reaction: 3 Strength: 3 Charisma: 4 Intuition: 4 Logic: 4 Willpower: 4 Edge: 2 Resonance: 5 Initiative: 7 Essence: 6 Knowledge Skills English : N Security Companies : 3 Engineering (Mechanical) : 2 Security Design (Matrix) : 3 Gangs (Gang Identification) : 3 Dealers (Fences) : 3 Engineering (Electrical) : 3 Pirate Trid Broadcasts : 2 Japanese : 2 Active Skills Compiling : 3 Decompiling : 3 Registering : 3 Cybercombat : 3 Electronic Warfare : 3 Hacking : 3 Computer : 3 Data Search : 3 Hardware : 3 Software : 3 Pistols : 3 Climbing : 2 Inflitration : 3 Perception : 2 Etiquette : 1 Pilot Ground Craft (Bike) : 2 Positive Qualities Double Jointed Photographic Memory Negative Qualities Sensitive System SINner Weak Immune System Weapons Survival Knife Ares Predator IV Concealable Holster Silencer 10x Spare Clips 3x EX-Explosive Rounds (10 shots) 3x Regular Ammo (10 shots) 3x Stick-n-Shock (10 shots) Armors Armor Clothing Armor Jacket Vehicles Suzuki Mirage (Racing Bike) Commlinks Commlink : Meta Link Response Upgrade (3) OS : Vector Xim System (Rating 3) Firewall (Rating 3) Equipments Tool Kit Glasses +Low Light Vision +Flare Compensation +Image Link +Smartlink Earbud Lockpick Set Sequencer (Rating 4) Climbing Gear Gecko Tape Gloves Flashlight Survival Kit Medkit (Rating 3) 10x Light Stick Complex forms Sprites Chibi Killer/ Fault Attack-shoulder mounted particle cannon Snoopy/ Data Akira/ Machine Priss/ crack Contacts Contacts Asuka/ Fixer (L:2 C:3) |
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