 Magic & Resonance, Would the game break if you had both? |
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 Jan 7 2007, 05:20 AM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 510 Joined: 19-May 06 From: Southern CA Member No.: 8,574  |
SR4 mentions a couple of times that nobody can have both a Magic attribute and a Resonance attribute. What's the OOC justification for that -- would it really be gamebreaking?
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Jan 7 2007, 06:03 AM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 906 Joined: 16-October 06 Member No.: 9,630 |
Why? because they are not compatible.
And Awaken individual is attuned to mana. A technomancer is attuned to the matrix. The flow of magic just wouldn't work on one who's mind is always plugged into the matrix. |
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Jan 7 2007, 06:37 AM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 101 Joined: 30-December 06 Member No.: 10,493 |
A character trying to use both magic and matrix would be spread increadibly thin. Technomancers are already hard to build.
The only possible abuse I can see is a Technomancer adept boosting his skills to crazy heights, and avoiding Resonance loss from cyber/bioware. But I don't think it would be broken. And the idea of a technomancer is kinda silly anyway, I don't see how a magic-using technomancer is any worse. If you had technomancy work off extreme neural cybernetics, or being an AI (the rules work great for both), magic use would only be difficult due to extreme essence loss. Maybe if the DM was allowing 800 BP character it would be broken. |
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Jan 7 2007, 06:49 AM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 906 Joined: 16-October 06 Member No.: 9,630 |
At 800 BP everything is broken
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Jan 7 2007, 06:53 AM
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#5
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Technomancers are already awakened! :P ;)
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Jan 7 2007, 07:08 AM
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#6
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
It would be broken in the other direction, I'm afraid. Splitting karma and BP between magical abilities and technomantic abilities will produce some very crappy characters.
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Jan 7 2007, 07:31 AM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 178 Joined: 4-September 05 Member No.: 7,682 |
While I don't see any valid reason why an extremely talented and intelligent individual couldn't wield both, from a game mechanics point of view I agree with Hyzmarca. Then again, ALL characters have to worry about depth versus breadth. Try stabbing someone with a Swiss Army knife ;)
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Jan 7 2007, 02:17 PM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 349 Joined: 16-January 05 Member No.: 6,984 |
For the same reason that Otaku could never be awakened.
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Jan 7 2007, 02:30 PM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 241 Joined: 14-December 06 Member No.: 10,360 |
I might be wrong, but isn't the following statement true? Technomancer == Otaku |
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Jan 7 2007, 02:44 PM
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#10
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
It's false.
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Jan 7 2007, 02:50 PM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 241 Joined: 14-December 06 Member No.: 10,360 |
Hmmm... okay, I'll see if I can find the section in the BBB that made me think that (once I'm home from work... in 8 hours or so)
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Jan 7 2007, 02:52 PM
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#12
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,168 Joined: 15-April 05 From: Helsinki, Finland Member No.: 7,337 |
I always considered Technomancers as Otaku +. In a way, even though some say Technos are a little underpowered. (I dont think they are underpowered, I think that their class is a little more BP dependent than the other classes, even mages, which are pretty BP dependent out of the box.) Lets say as a GM, i might raise my eyebrows at a barely cybered Face taking a buttload of negative qualities for points, for a Technomancer id understand. Technos have, well, more social skills it seems for one. Technomancers, while they might be kinda nerdy and prone to enjoy the Matrix, seem to be head and shoulders above the fragile, never leaving the house, living in the machine Otaku. Otaku also had to plug into the machine physically....they just needed a deck. Technomancers dont even need that, and are hindered by such ware. Now, back to original thread point....im in the boat of a Resonance and Magic toting character would be spread WAAAY too thin at the start, and need a ton of karma to even start to catch up to where their counterparts started....in which that time their counterparts would be waay beyond. And imagine the karma sink of Submersion AND Initation. I mean, it wouldnt be overpowered unless you earned about 1,000 karma, and if you stick with it that long, you DESERVE a god. :grinbig: |
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Jan 7 2007, 03:25 PM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 510 Joined: 19-May 06 From: Southern CA Member No.: 8,574 |
Yes, SR4 specifically stated that Technomancers are those formerly known as Otaku.
Several people have said, "Yes they would be broken, as they would be spread incredibly thin." That's not the definition of broken that I meant -- I meant as in powergaming, would technomancer/mages be too powerful? Why not let a character have both a resonance rating and a magic rating, perhaps splitting one pool into two as mystic adeps split their pool between magic and adept powers? Would allowing this allow a character to be too powerful? My first thought is, as some have said, that a character like this would be spread far, far too thin and would be upstaged by her teammates all the time. Thus, I don't see a problem with this. If someone really, really wants to make an ineffective character, why not let them? Or is there something that I'm missing, some game breaking reason as to why a true technomancer can't be created? [A (whatever)mancer is one who practices (whatever)mancy. -Mancy is an English suffix that was derived from Old French -mancie, from Late Latin -mantīa and from Greek manteia. Simply put, it means uncovering hidden knowledge, or seeing the future, by mystical means. Thus, a necromancer would be one who seeks knowledge through necrotic techniques. Which means that a technomancer should be some sort of technological wizard, which I guess they sort of are with their ability to access the matric from everywhere, but they have no actual ability to work real magic.] |
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Jan 7 2007, 04:06 PM
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#14
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
But in SR3, Otaku could be Awakened. Just very very very rare.
And if a technomancer could be Awakened, he would be the Wiki-Google of the Sixth world. An Awakened technomancer can have access to Divining and have his Data Sprite to do Data Search, his Machine Sprite and his (Guard-power) spirit to do Stability and Guard for no glitching. |
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Jan 7 2007, 05:38 PM
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#15
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
No, they couldn't.
To keep the semantic: Otaku++. :grinbig: |
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Jan 7 2007, 06:00 PM
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#16
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,168 Joined: 15-April 05 From: Helsinki, Finland Member No.: 7,337 |
Or an extra: Otaku with personality and a life. :grinbig: :grinbig: Really, thats the big difference for me, and the fact they are wireless. Then again, i think they are only wireless because the matrix itself is wireless these days. |
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Jan 7 2007, 06:34 PM
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#17
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
I believe toturi is refering to the rare Otaku who underwent SURGE and became 'awakened' in that manner. ;) |
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Jan 8 2007, 01:12 AM
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#18
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
*whistles* 8) |
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Jan 8 2007, 01:12 AM
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#19
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,526 Joined: 9-April 06 From: McGuire AFB, NJ Member No.: 8,445 |
Twinking at it's finest. :P
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Jan 8 2007, 05:53 AM
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#20
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 510 Joined: 19-May 06 From: Southern CA Member No.: 8,574 |
Why would it be twinking at its finest?
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Jan 8 2007, 03:40 PM
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#21
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,078 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 67 |
Not all pre-Crash 2.0 otaku became technomancers. Also, not all present-day technomancers began as otaku.
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Jan 8 2007, 05:11 PM
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#22
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
Well, the fact that Otaku and Techno's can't also be (another type of?) magicians has always been, IMO, the single strongest argument of the "magical otaku" camp. |
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Jan 8 2007, 10:49 PM
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#23
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 510 Joined: 19-May 06 From: Southern CA Member No.: 8,574 |
Ok, pardon my French, but what the hell is the magical otaku camp and how is it relevant?
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Jan 9 2007, 06:04 AM
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#24
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Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
Basically there are two trains of theought when it comes to Technomancers which are:
(1) Technomacers are in fact a new kind of Mage and is proof that the beliefs and enviroment of the 6th Age is adapting and changing Magic. Hence Technomancers can't become Mages because they are already Awakened. (Of course this theory doesn't explain why there are no Techno/Adepts running around.) (2) Technomancers are proof that the meta-human brain is changing and evolving into something more, the only real questions are whether it represents a natural course or if someone or something is altering the minds of meta-humanity, and of course, why. Personally I fall into the second camp because I like my Magic and Tech to be seperate although I have a sickening feeling that the 'offical' word is going to trend towards the first camp. *Edit* Personally I've always assumed that the reason Technomacers couldn't be Mages and visa-versa is that both require the same parts of the brain to be active, but in different ways in order to sense the Mana/Wireless flow. (We know from Third Edition that the brain activity from spellcasting was detectable and could be used to trigger a cranial bomb, but no-one knew for sure what parts of the brain were actually in use so they couldn't reliably lobotamize Mages, so I don't think its a far stretch to extend and claim that some parts of the brain are active all of the time, its just not detectible yet.) |
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Jan 9 2007, 07:04 AM
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#25
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
Personally, I'm inclined to say that if you want the schrew yourself up the rear with a Black & Decker via the assistance of a troll named Bubba, you're perfectly free to.
Which is about analgous to spending points on both Resonance and Magic, and thend spending points in both the Magical and Otaku skills......... Yeah. Forget about ever doing anything else. All your Karma and :nuyen: are going straight into that karma-hole. |
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