 Astral surveillance, Is there any way to ditch it? |
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 Jan 14 2007, 06:46 PM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 118 Joined: 16-December 06 Member No.: 10,387  |
Say a team gets noticed or triggers an alarm while they're inside a corp facility.
The corp's responds by dispatching a physical response team that will take minutes to arrive and can be dealt with by the whole team. Standard fare, not a problem. However, in addition, the corp dispatches a few mages in astral form to track the intruders and make sure they don't get away. Due to astral travel speeds, the mages can be there in seconds, and no one except full magicians can do anything at all to them. The runner team has one mage. It looks like the options are 1) The runner mage takes on all of the corp mages by herself. 2) The team has surveillance on them that they can't ditch or fight, and it can be used to keep sending physical teams at them (e.g. one of the mages runs back and forth to a corp facility to report their location). If the team's mage can't take on the corp mages alone, what can the team do about this situation? I suppose they could try to hide out somewhere the mages couldn't follow, but what kind of places would work? Some other corp's facility that has heavy astral security? Doesn't sound like a good option. Or some building that has very powerful wards? Again, I can't think of any that would be publicly accessible. And the mages could just hang out overhead and probably pick up the runners again when they leave. Any other thoughts on what the team could do about it? |
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 Jan 14 2007, 06:52 PM
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#2
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jacked in Group: Admin Posts: 9,050 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 463 |
Go where the funny toxic spirits hang out. ;)
The best thing, of course, is to find out about the level of astral security beforehand, and only take jobs you can manage. It's not so much different with the physical security. If they are too good for you, you are in trouble. Bye Thanee |
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Jan 14 2007, 06:56 PM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 668 Joined: 4-September 06 Member No.: 9,304 |
Yes, they could duck into a warded building, and leave by another exit or in a vehicle. Astral mages would not be able to see them if they were in a vehicle, unless they checked out every vehicle.
The PC mage could just summon some of his bound spirits, tell them to attack the astral mages. You could go into a place with serious astral problems/background count. Or places where there are dual creatures, preferably nasty ones. Or you could duck into a sewer, once the astral mages are there, trap them with somekind of FAB (or other such thing). Or just drop part of the sewers on them, as they can't use astral speed if encased in mother earth. They may even die if they get lost trying to get out. |
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Jan 14 2007, 07:25 PM
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#4
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...this is why you have a Nega-Mage on the team (see: House Rule: Nega Mage thread).
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Jan 14 2007, 07:37 PM
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#5
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,150 Joined: 19-December 05 From: Rhein-Ruhr Megaplex Member No.: 8,081 |
The common (security) wagemage will have pretty average stats. Runner mages tend to be at the higher end of the scale...
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Jan 14 2007, 07:40 PM
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#6
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
The same way as evading everything else - Stealth skills.
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Jan 14 2007, 07:53 PM
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#7
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,206 Joined: 9-July 06 From: Fresno, CA Member No.: 8,856 |
A Mage can only astrally project for Magic hours before dying. Stay on the move. What do you expect these mages to do? They will follow you and if you don't stop in one location long enough for them to send a response then they can't really send a response.
How are these mages communicating with base? I can assure you they're not using their comlink focus. Did they take the time to cast a mind link spell. How will they know where you are, their GPS foci won't be working either. So even if they could communicate back to someone they can't say you're at the corner of first and 1st, etc. You've got all the advantages of technology on your side as well, so you can call all your contacts and get a variety of assistance depending on the situation. There's lots of options. But basically you can live for days constatntly on the move, 5 minutes at a stuffer shack isn't gonna bring corp goons on you and you can eat. They on the other hand are dead if they stay astrall for any longer than their Magic attribute in hours. |
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Jan 14 2007, 08:37 PM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 906 Joined: 16-October 06 Member No.: 9,630 |
Your mage could also spend a minnute or two erasing his the magic sig's he's left behind then the party leaves before they arrive, nothing to track astrally complete and clean break.
The party would leave BEFORE the physical team arrives and the mage would cover his astral trail. Astral Tracking is more then just flying around behind them, if you lose sight you have to make rolls and have an astral trail to follow and its not hard for a mage to erase his astral signature. Say they have two mages following them. One leaves to report back the groups location. The second gets his astral form knocked out by the PC's mage. A summoned spirit could delay the mage long enougth for the PC to make a clean break. |
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Jan 14 2007, 08:47 PM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 118 Joined: 16-December 06 Member No.: 10,387 |
The things that I see as different from physical security are: 1) Of the runners, only mages can do anything at all about it. Instead of the entire team being able to deal with it, it's limited to often only one character's abilities. 2) Physical security from a remote location takes minutes to arrive. Astral security takes seconds. A corp could maintain a central stable of mages and dispatch them where needed, so basically every corp facility can have heavy astral security with no incremental cost to the corp. It can still be dealt with, but it seems like a situation that's much more heavily stacked against the runners. Also, if astral security is easier and more effective for corps (because it can be centralized), then it starts to shift things to the point where a runner team is only as good as its mages, which would be unfortunate. The options I can think of to mitigate it are: 1) Figure out a way for runners to deal with astral surveillance without having to defeat the spying mages directly. 2) Just say (as GM) that corps tend not to use centrally-dispatched astral security. If it would be effective, though, I'd like to have some explanation as to why they wouldn't use it. One interesting option along the lines of 1) would be to make astral space inherently dangerous. e.g. there are a *lot* of spirits wandering around, and they're usually territorial and hostile. Important facilities and upscale neighborhoods will be kept clear, but following someone around in astral space for any amount of time is likely to get you attacked. It's consistent with the rules, but I haven't read a lot of SR fiction, so I'm not sure how consistent it is with that... |
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Jan 14 2007, 09:03 PM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 433 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Somewhere in Iraq Member No.: 1,789 |
It depends on the writer's needs for tension. Some have astral space clear except for an occasional watcher or benevolent free spirit, while others have toxics wandering around attacking anything and everything. I think areas around upscale and corporate interests would probably be either patrolled or kept clear of dangerous spirits but I wouldn't be surprised with a few watchers in that area.
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Jan 14 2007, 09:36 PM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 295 Joined: 10-July 05 Member No.: 7,492 |
Do smoke grenades block Astral Sight?
If not, it looks like you're gonna have to find some bacteria-bombs. That is, the equivalent of a smoke grenades, but it's little tiny bacterias suspended in midair. It would probably cause less of a visibility modifier for those in the physical world, but completely block out astral, since they can't see through living things (or move through them) Also, if you get out of the mages LOS, and dive into some bushes, the mages probably wouldn't be able to see you, and if your mage was doing that astral signature cleansing thing, they suddently have alot of places to look for you. |
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Jan 14 2007, 09:38 PM
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#12
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,150 Joined: 19-December 05 From: Rhein-Ruhr Megaplex Member No.: 8,081 |
In SR4, you can move through living things...
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Jan 14 2007, 09:52 PM
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#13
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Yep. |
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Jan 14 2007, 11:17 PM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 548 Joined: 21-December 06 Member No.: 10,416 |
Several good points already raised. Basically, astral mages can't communicate with those around their meat body, they can't read street signs and can't use technological devices in the real world (so no phoning in using a public phone).
It is possible that a relay of mages could report locations. This has its own problems though. The mage shouldn't have any problem getting back to their body, but they might have trouble reporting locations if they don't have the map well memorized. When they go back to the hunt, they will have to find the runners all over again, which probably won't be easy, especially if they are moving. Most Corps won't have that many security mages to begin with and probably wouldn't put them all on one case since there could always be another attack some place else. One way around this is to have a mage with an Ally Spirit. The mage leaves the ally behind and uses the mindlink to report the location in real time. If the mage loses track of where he is, he calls the ally to him. Then the ally materializes, reads streets signs and goes back to HQ. One other way to evade is to go underground. If the mage follows you, they are hemmed in by the ground above them. The problem is that while it traps the enemy mage, it can also turn into a trap for the characters too. |
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Jan 14 2007, 11:22 PM
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#15
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jacked in Group: Admin Posts: 9,050 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 463 |
Well, if you were a mage... would you want a job like that? Or rather one of the thousand jobs out there, which are much more interesting than sitting in some room for an eight hour shift waiting for an emergency call. ;) You will only get the low-end of mages to actually do that, I'd think. And you would still have to pay them a lot for that job... Same reason why there should not be Force 10+ spirits running around everywhere. Most mages could use their talent for much better things. And even most corps might have a number of better uses for these valuable employees. I think this only sounds this simple on paper. Bye Thanee |
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Jan 15 2007, 03:30 AM
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#16
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
Free spirits are actually really rare. In Aztlan, a country that counts all the non-metahuman people in its population figures, has only 2% non-metahuman, and that's counting the shapeshifters and dragons. Of that, maybe 5% of them are free spirits.
Plus, I don't imagine that free spirits would do much hanging around in cities. They'll be bothered all the time by the random astrally projecting mages, if not outright disrupted. There has to be more mages randomly astrally projecting than free spirits, anyway. |
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Jan 15 2007, 05:27 AM
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#17
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
you could always allow the purchasing of anchor foci. for example, anchor foci with a nice, high force, mana static in it. foci are astrally present as well, so they should theoretically be able to drop a mana barrier, or even a mana ball (astral grenades ;) )
additionally, keep in mind that there are mages out there who provide spirits. this is just as true for the runners as it is for mr bigshot wageslave, and you can bet there are some magicians willing to sell the services of their conjured spirits. it probably won't be cheap, but if you do your homework and expect to need it, you should be able to buy it. even if not, an appropriate contact could get you a spirit sent to you (will presumably cost extra, since we're talking about two services; one to find you, one for you to use, and furthermore if you're in a high security warded area, you shouldn't waste your time or money). so keep in mind that while magic is not available to the average mundane, it *is* available to a sufficiently rich mundane who wants it badly enough, albeit in limited form. of course, getting either of those things into a warded facility is a bit tricky, but even if you're looking at something just to get rid of the trailing mage for a bit as soon as you step outside the wards, this should help a little. |
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Jan 15 2007, 12:04 PM
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#18
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,498 Joined: 4-August 05 From: ADL Member No.: 7,534 |
Materialized spirits can read street signs and report back to base. |
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Jan 15 2007, 12:42 PM
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#19
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,629 Joined: 14-December 06 Member No.: 10,361 |
Why don't you get your magician to summon an elemental or spirit and use it's powers on the astrally projecting mages? If they combat the spirit, they'll take nasty physical drain, while the spirit nails them. Or you could get a spirit to use it's concealment power on your team.
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Jan 15 2007, 12:50 PM
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#20
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,498 Joined: 4-August 05 From: ADL Member No.: 7,534 |
No more physical drain in astral space.
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Jan 15 2007, 12:51 PM
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#21
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
All of them, or just Spirits of Man? What languages do they automatically know? |
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Jan 15 2007, 12:57 PM
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#22
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,498 Joined: 4-August 05 From: ADL Member No.: 7,534 |
No comment on that in SR4 I think. But there was one in SR3 (again IIRC) that they can speak the native language of the caster.
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Jan 15 2007, 01:48 PM
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#23
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
'Speak' does not necessarily equate to 'read' though.
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Jan 15 2007, 02:52 PM
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#24
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,498 Joined: 4-August 05 From: ADL Member No.: 7,534 |
True, but I would definitley grant Spirits of Man the skills to do so (well its not a skill anymore in SR4).
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Jan 15 2007, 03:14 PM
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#25
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
I'd have no problem with that, as I implied above. :) |
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