IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

12 Pages V  « < 5 6 7 8 9 > »   
 Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Do adepts suck right now?, Yes, they do.
Moon-Hawk
post Jan 24 2007, 07:34 PM
Post #131


Genuine Artificial Intelligence
********

Group: Members
Posts: 4,019
Joined: 12-June 03
Member No.: 4,715
My favorite moment was when the adept with missile mastery and incompetance pistols needed some help from the street sam ejecting the clip so that she could get some ammo to throw. :-)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Grinder
post Jan 24 2007, 08:03 PM
Post #132


Great, I'm a Dragon...
*********

Group: Retired Admins
Posts: 6,699
Joined: 8-October 03
From: North Germany
Member No.: 5,698
Why didn't he throw the pistol?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Moon-Hawk
post Jan 24 2007, 08:07 PM
Post #133


Genuine Artificial Intelligence
********

Group: Members
Posts: 4,019
Joined: 12-June 03
Member No.: 4,715
If she just threw the pistol she'd be unarmed and have to scavenge for more debris to throw. With the clip ejected, she could throw the pistol and still have 16 more things to throw.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
djinni
post Jan 24 2007, 08:09 PM
Post #134


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 777
Joined: 22-November 06
Member No.: 9,934
QUOTE (Moon-Hawk)
If she just threw the pistol she'd be unarmed and have to scavenge for more debris to throw. With the clip ejected, she could throw the pistol and still have 16 more things to throw.

but she was incompetent with pistols, how did she know it had bullets, and that the clip could be ejected?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Grinder
post Jan 24 2007, 08:16 PM
Post #135


Great, I'm a Dragon...
*********

Group: Retired Admins
Posts: 6,699
Joined: 8-October 03
From: North Germany
Member No.: 5,698
Incompetence doesn't mean that she know nothing about pistols.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Grinder
post Jan 24 2007, 08:17 PM
Post #136


Great, I'm a Dragon...
*********

Group: Retired Admins
Posts: 6,699
Joined: 8-October 03
From: North Germany
Member No.: 5,698
QUOTE (Moon-Hawk)
If she just threw the pistol she'd be unarmed and have to scavenge for more debris to throw. With the clip ejected, she could throw the pistol and still have 16 more things to throw.

Bah, a good MM adept would have killed the target with the pistol throw! :grinbig:
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Wakshaani
post Jan 24 2007, 08:18 PM
Post #137


Shooting Target
****

Group: Members
Posts: 1,598
Joined: 24-May 03
Member No.: 4,629
And an *excellent* MM Adept would have hurled the pistol, killed the guy, had the pistol bounce off their helmet, off the wall, and back to her hand like a boomerang, to throw again.

...

So I read a lot of Captain America comics!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Grinder
post Jan 24 2007, 08:29 PM
Post #138


Great, I'm a Dragon...
*********

Group: Retired Admins
Posts: 6,699
Joined: 8-October 03
From: North Germany
Member No.: 5,698
That sounds like a really cool MM adept, yes.
Or like a good Archer adept in Earthdawn. ;)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
James McMurray
post Jan 24 2007, 08:40 PM
Post #139


Great Dragon
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 5,430
Joined: 10-January 05
From: Fort Worth, Texas
Member No.: 6,957
I'm sure SR5 will finally be the combining of ED and SR, and we'll truly learn if humanity can defeat the horrors.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Xenith
post Jan 24 2007, 09:07 PM
Post #140


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 399
Joined: 27-May 04
Member No.: 6,361
Roni actually used the bullets in an ejected clip to knock out two security guards at once. It made me laugh and kept them from being shot at in a nanite contaminated area. (they had suits on)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Kyoto Kid
post Jan 24 2007, 09:37 PM
Post #141


Bushido Cowgirl
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 5,782
Joined: 8-July 05
From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats
Member No.: 7,490
...whew...too much...

All said & done, I really don't care who thinks what character type is better or worse. My two favourite characters right now are both adepts. I like playing them. They have their strengths and their challenges. That is what makes them interesting to play.

The bottom line to all this is, if you like a certain character concept, go with it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Xenith
post Jan 24 2007, 09:47 PM
Post #142


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 399
Joined: 27-May 04
Member No.: 6,361
Most definitely.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
djinni
post Jan 24 2007, 10:31 PM
Post #143


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 777
Joined: 22-November 06
Member No.: 9,934
QUOTE (Grinder)
Incompetence doesn't mean that she know nothing about pistols.

No Rating Unaware: A complete absence of knowledge or practice...
Firearms Example: Never seen a gun before.
Iccompetent Negative Quality: A character who is Incompetent possesses a total lack of knowledge or ability with a certain Active skill.

yeah it does...
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Moon-Hawk
post Jan 24 2007, 10:34 PM
Post #144


Genuine Artificial Intelligence
********

Group: Members
Posts: 4,019
Joined: 12-June 03
Member No.: 4,715
djinni called the gaming police on me! They r in my game, killin my fun! Im playing sr wrong! O NOES!!!1

I approved the flaw, much fun was had by all, can we move on?

Okay, I'm obviously cranky. It's time to go home now.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Grinder
post Jan 24 2007, 11:04 PM
Post #145


Great, I'm a Dragon...
*********

Group: Retired Admins
Posts: 6,699
Joined: 8-October 03
From: North Germany
Member No.: 5,698
QUOTE (djinni)
QUOTE (Grinder @ Jan 24 2007, 03:16 PM)
Incompetence doesn't mean that she know nothing about pistols.

No Rating Unaware: A complete absence of knowledge or practice...
Firearms Example: Never seen a gun before.
Iccompetent Negative Quality: A character who is Incompetent possesses a total lack of knowledge or ability with a certain Active skill.

yeah it does...

Uuuups. :oops:

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Grinder
post Jan 24 2007, 11:05 PM
Post #146


Great, I'm a Dragon...
*********

Group: Retired Admins
Posts: 6,699
Joined: 8-October 03
From: North Germany
Member No.: 5,698
QUOTE (Kyoto Kid)
The bottom line to all this is, if you like a certain character concept, go with it.

What, no more "why adepts/sams/blind dogs/ninja drop bears are better/worse then adepts/sams/blind dogs/ninja drop bears"-threads? :eek: :grinbig:
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Serbitar
post Jan 24 2007, 11:12 PM
Post #147


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,498
Joined: 4-August 05
From: ADL
Member No.: 7,534
QUOTE (JonathanC)
Kinda the whole point of Adepts, originally, was that they could do as much damage as a gun, WITHOUT A GUN. Thus, y'know, being able to enter a secured area unarmed and still get things done.

thats what mages are for
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Serbitar
post Jan 24 2007, 11:16 PM
Post #148


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,498
Joined: 4-August 05
From: ADL
Member No.: 7,534
QUOTE (Moon-Hawk)
QUOTE (Serbitar @ Jan 24 2007, 10:48 AM)
And kinesics is broken. It works exactly like an attribute boost but without the caps.

Just to offer another perspective:

Kinesics is definitely an overpowered ability, but since it only augments an underpowered stat I find that, in practice, it's not as overpowered as it seems. (I point to the poll we had several months ago that had Charisma and Strength pegged solidly as SR4 dump stats)

With kinesics, I have a character who's primary role on the team is Face. I know that's normal for some groups, but for me that is a special thing. She has a bunch of social powers, and some missile mastery and powered throw just so she can contribute to a fight, but first and foremost she is a face. She contributes in major, meaningful ways to the runs, and I have not found her 15+ dice in social situations to be terribly unbalancing.

Now granted, the lack of caps is a problem, allowing Mango the Pornomancer adept, but that's a minor issue of a cap less than an issue with kinesics itself. If it really bothers you, I'd suggest replacing Improved Ability: Charisma with Kinesics, leave the cost of kinesics alone, and apply the attribute cap.

In summary, without kinesics I didn't see anyone taking social skills as anything except a tertiary role. Now I have a real Face who contributes without overpowering. In my game that = balanced. But like I said, that's my game. If you already had people wrestling each other for who got to play the face, then it's probably more of a problem for you, but it's a problem that I wish I had.

Why not just cap kinesics like normal? you can still ahve a very good face adept, but none that is blowing every other dice pool in SR4 out of the water (we are talking 3-4 dice here)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Serbitar
post Jan 24 2007, 11:21 PM
Post #149


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,498
Joined: 4-August 05
From: ADL
Member No.: 7,534
QUOTE (Crusher Bob @ Jan 24 2007, 07:00 PM)
How's this for the 333 karma, 1M Y challenge:

Karma Spending Assumptions:
Cost of attributes is based on non-racially modified stat (costs less)
Cost of raising magic is based on magic stat before essence loss (costs more)

Starting; tried to make a playable character here.  Only real weakness is lack of edge.

[ Spoiler ]

Challange solution not accepted. You are using Cyberware in fields where there would be adept powers available (even in the field where adepts used to excell, perception), proving the cyberware solution is superior and the adept powers inferior. That was the whole point.

To stress it even further: Remove the adept, replace increased reflexes 2 with karma later on. Get the 50 BP starting money in ware, and you have exactly the same character only without combat sense, but wiht a huge ammount of resources to spend (karma and money).

In fact the only thogh you take with you from being an adept is the combat sense. The rest is a SAM.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Serbitar
post Jan 24 2007, 11:22 PM
Post #150


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,498
Joined: 4-August 05
From: ADL
Member No.: 7,534
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
QUOTE (Serbitar @ Jan 24 2007, 10:55 AM)

Congratulations. You have spend a considerable amount of BP and Karma for what anybody can do with a heavy pistol.

But the adept can do it with a paperclip. Smuggling a heavy pistol into a high security area is a lot more difficult that smuggling a paperclip into a high security area. It doesn't even have to be a paperclip. It could be a playing card or a screw. It could be a rolled-up newspaper or a pointy paper cur from the water fountain or his can of soda. He could even pick bullets out of his armor and throw them back at his enemies.

If that is the only reason, use a mage.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Serbitar
post Jan 24 2007, 11:32 PM
Post #151


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,498
Joined: 4-August 05
From: ADL
Member No.: 7,534
@ Xenith

PLease post your character. I suspect he can only do this throwing knives trick and thats it (which is not very impressive. Cyberadepts throwing 25 dice with pistols are impressive). So he is good for that one occasion which a mage can do with 5 karma.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Kyrn
post Jan 24 2007, 11:38 PM
Post #152


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 249
Joined: 26-February 02
From: Orlando
Member No.: 815
If the argument is just that anything an adept can do, a sam can do too, then you have to look at the reverse. Anything a sam can do by purchasing ware, an adept can do better, by purchasing the same ware and supplementing it with magic. Want a bareknuckle bruiser? The sam gets bone mods. The adept gets bone mods, and critical strike. A quickdrawing pistolero? The sam gets reflex boosters and a smartlink. The adept does the same and purchases improved ability pistols. A sleuth? The sam decks his eyes and ears out with all the mods he can get. The adept then does the same but with four or more extra dice from enhanced perception to boost all his perception rolls.
You may argue that this makes adepts sams, and you're right. It does. But you're not really talking about street samurai in your argument anyway, you're talking about mundane characters. And mundane characters are cheaper to make for a reason; they are not as powerful as magically awakened characters. A sam in my book can be a mundane with ware, a straight up adept, or a character who gasp blends magic and technology to create a being more powerful than one who utilizes only magic or tech. I always thought of that as being the point of Shadowrun anyway.


Wow, I'm extra special ranty today. With a dollop of self-righteousness sauce on top.

mmm...self-righteousness sauce...
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
James McMurray
post Jan 24 2007, 11:42 PM
Post #153


Great Dragon
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 5,430
Joined: 10-January 05
From: Fort Worth, Texas
Member No.: 6,957
Hey! you got your self-righteous sauce in my bemused onlookery!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Thain
post Jan 24 2007, 11:42 PM
Post #154


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 208
Joined: 15-January 07
Member No.: 10,652
To fuel the fire, here is my thought on An Adept Adjustment.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Kyrn
post Jan 24 2007, 11:50 PM
Post #155


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 249
Joined: 26-February 02
From: Orlando
Member No.: 815
QUOTE (James McMurray)
Hey! you got your self-righteous sauce in my bemused onlookery!

And...
Don't leave me hanging here man, how was it?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
« Next Oldest · Shadowrun · Next Newest »
 

12 Pages V  « < 5 6 7 8 9 > » 
Reply to this topicStart new topic

 

Display Mode: Standard · Switch to: Linear+ · Switch to: Outline

Track this topic · Email this topic · Print this topic · Subscribe to this forum

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 16th May 2026 - 06:48 AM
Powered By IP.Board © 2026  IPS, Inc.

Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.