Do adepts suck right now?, Yes, they do. Options

[Wakshaani]

If you want to nerf teh Cyber-Adept and bring things under one roof, you can always use Wakshaani's Magic Cap.

Wakshaani's Magic Cap works like this:

Magic is an attribute, just like Charisma or Agility, with a natural limit of 6 (5 for Trolls, 2/7 for Elves) and a hard limit of 9 (7 for Trolls, 10 for Elves) and has a "Magical Prodigy" Quality for 20 BP that raises the natural limit by 1 (And the hard limit re-adjusts from there.)

When you take cyberware, it doesn't effect your *current* Magic, it effects your natural limit... thus, if you had 2 essence of Cyberware, your natural limit would be reduced to 4, with a hard cap of 6. You sacrifice long-term growth for short-term gain. Magicians with some cyberware aren't that bad off ... most will never reach their hard cap or Initiate all that deeply, but, as the 'ware piles up, the Magician finds himself stunted, his potential squandered, and the other mages look at him with pity.

This lil' tweak fixes a LOT of stuff.

First, it brings magic in line with everything else, capping it around 9, like everything else.

Second, it allows magicians to take some cyberware at chargen without having 10+ BP kicked in the head.

Third, it stunts the halfway house that is a Cyber-Adept, letting pure cybertypes and pure Adepts both pass them in their selected areas.

Heck, it even explains why you might learn a new Metamagic without gettnig another level of Initiation ... you might have hit your Initiation limit and just can't go further.

Give it a whirl, you might be surprised.

-- Wak

[Roni]

So now we can get 6 magic points AND 2 essence of cyberware? All that does is make the out-of-the-box cyberadept own even more...anything else is only better after the karma starts building up.

[Serbitar]

[Serbitar]

[Moon-Hawk]

[djinni]

[Kil2k]

Now that we are discussing Houserules. On page 21 Street Magic, is an optional Rule "Adepts and Geasa". (I will use this one, because of our little thread here :spin: )
This Rule allows taking Geasa for Adepts to lower the cost of Adept Powers.

Now i made another Adept Char, but without a Houserule for exchange of Nuyen - Karma (giving the Money to poor Orphans or something) a character like this one will have not many ways to spend his money.

Race: Ork –20 BP

Body 6 (-20 BP)
Agility 5 (-40 BP)
Reaction 6 (9) (-40 BP) [-18 Karma]
Strenght 8 (-65 BP)
Charisma 1
Intuition 4 (-10 BP) [-21 Karma]
Logic 2 (-10 BP)
Willpower 3 (-10 BP) [-9 Karma]

Edge: 3 (-20 BP)
Essence: 6,0
Magic: 9 (-65 BP) [-72 Karma]
Initiative: 13 +4D6

Initation Grade: 3 [-30 Karma]

Positive Qualities:
Adept (-5 BP)
Aptitude: Close Combat (-10 BP)

Negative Qualities :
Sensitive System (+15 BP)
Criminal SIN (+10 BP)

Skills:
Unarmed Combat 7 (10) (-32 BP)
(Martial Arts) (-2 BP)
Infiltration 4 (-16 BP)
(Urban) (-2 BP)
Athletics Skill Group 3 (-30 BP)
Dodge 3 (-12 BP)
(Ranged Combat) (-2 BP)
Etiquette 1 (-4 BP)
(Street) (-2 BP)
Perception 1 (-4 BP)
(Visual) –2 BP

Magic: (On everything Location Geas: City for 0,75 Multiplicator)
Improved Reflexes III (5x0,75) = 3,75 MP
Attribute Boost Strenght I (0,25x0,75) = 0,1875 MP
Attribute Boost Agility I (0,25x0,75) = 0,1875 MP
Attribute Boost Body I (0,25x0,75) = 0,1875 MP
Improved Ability: Unarmed Combat III (1,5x0,75) = 1,125
Critical Strike IX (2,25x0,75) =1,6875 MP
Killing Hands (0,5x0,75) =0,375 MP
Distance Strike (2,0x0,75) = 1,5 MP


----

He can punch from a Distance of 9 meters (should normally be a surprise attack ...). This counts as a ranged attack. He can boost his Agility and Strenght, has 12 Unarmed Combat Dice + 5-9 Agility Dice. Unarmed Combat damage is increased by 9. Not that bad at all.
Advantage: He does not need any weapon, not even a playing card.
Disadvantage: he sucks out of City.

[Moon-Hawk]

[Kil2k]

@Moon-Hawk

You are right. Yes but this thread is about sucking Adepts.

And so i created a deadly Assassine Adept who walks trough any scanner and any control. As Initate he can mask his Aura and so on. No Sam can do that.

But if i would play this Char, he would just not leave the city so easily. Just by force. Not really bad roleplay, the Char knows too where he sucks ...
(Ah, and I do not play such a char, and I do not intend to do so ...)

And dont forget, that there are other Geasa as well, for example being drunk, or "had sex not less than 24h ago" .

[Kyoto Kid]

...now if Adepts could learn Absorption metamagic, then I agree, they really would suck.

[Mistwalker]

Where is everyone getting this 1.5 pp per level idea for increased reflexes?
It won't really change the cost for most adepts. You may save 0.5 pp.

Now, cost is 2 / 3 / 5
1.5 way is 1.5 / 3 / 4.5

There is very little difference, and I believe that most adepts take level 2, so the cost is the same.

There still isn't much incentive for adepts (or mystic adepts) to get increased reflexes vs synaptic booster. For a magic point, you can get synaptic booster 2, saving 2 pp for other powers.

I think that if I was going to tinker with the cost of increased reflexes, I would go with 1 / 2 / 4.
This, I think, would entice the adepts to keep it all in magic, rather than branch out into bioware.

[BishopMcQ]

[Kyrn]

[emo samurai]

RP purposes. I'm sure a lot of adepts would really, really like to have all their power come from themselves and themselves alone, and there shouldn't be that much of a power gap between cyber-adepts and adepts.

[Kyrn]

I guess I've never had a character with that level of obsession before. I'd think that once human enhancement technology has been around fifty or sixty years it wouldn't be something people would think of as cheating anymore. I'm also a fan of the whole melding of magic and sci-fi.

I also find it strange that people want adepts (with magic or A) to be as good or better than magic plus tech (B) so that A+B isn't greater than A or B alone.

I can see the occassional purist holdout, but not enough of them to warrant changing the system.

[Serbitar]

I want pure adepts to be usefull and stylish and not completely outclassed by mages and SAMs.

SAMs on the other hand are done quite perfect in SR4.

[JonathanC]

[Xenith]

Does he have much purpose beyond that? Not really. And considering the character concept he didn't need to have it.

Considering the amount of karma they had to start, OF COURSE they're not going to have much. Its a low power campaign, thus its either specialize as a one trick pony, or not be especially good in any one are. However, I could give you a full build if you'd like.

Anyway, it was a concept we built around. All of us pride ourselves on having interesting concepts and building the stats around that concept. We don't always go for uber powerful shit. It just doesn't need to be. Just because you can munchkin up a mage or a street sami, doesn't mean you should. Take a look at the example characters in the book. Are any of those really all that scary? Not particularly.

Considering how powerful thrown weapons are (or lack thereof), this adept is scary. Consider the scale rather than comparing it to things that are meant for mass destruction. Give this adept a bunch of grenades instead and he's absolutely deadly. Not only can he toss orbs of death, he can use the pins afterward too. Come on, that at least gets points for coolness.

Seriously, stop yer bitching. Adepts are cool. Admit it. So are Sami. Mages are scary, yeah, but thats why you geek the mage first. Its also why they cost a bit more and are more of a karma sink than adepts. Mystic Adepts get the best of both worlds.

And stop this whole grade school "you suck" crap. Its annoying and just pisses me off. Get over it. Some things in Shadowrun aren't fair. Guns are more powerful than knives or swords. Duh. Magic can only do so much. If you can equal the power of a gun with a thrown knife, then its scary. Get out of this metagaming box and think about it.

Anyway, enough of this. I'm going to go make me a scary extendable baton adept with some heavy athletics skills. 'Cause thats just how I roll.

[mfb]

Xenith, if you don't want people telling you that your adept is not very powerful, then don't post him in a thread about how powerful adepts are (or aren't). we're not in here discussing whether or not adepts are cool, we're in here discussing how they stack up to sams in terms of power.

[Xenith]

*shrugs* I don't know about you, but I'm a little afraid of having four grenades tossed at me at once. Maybe its just me. And 9P is never anything to scoff at, unless you're a dragon. Maybe I should just build a scary adept for you to stare at, as this one was made with few resources than normal.

The "suckage" of adepts is really just in your head as any of the toys Sams get the adepts can get too.

But I guess its my fault for tossing in a character who doesn't go with the most powerful option available. :please:

[mfb]

no, it's your fault for getting mad at people for wanting to discuss power comparisons in a thread about power comparisons.

[Mistwalker]

[James McMurray]

How much does that delta synaptic booster 3 cost?

[Serbitar]

[lorechaser]