Reverse Essence...?, Implications of essence rules Options

[cetiah]

[Kagetenshi]

There's another option the person you quoted totally ignored, which is them removing a piece of the cyberware they currently have for the new 'ware.

FWIW, while I'd like to see some way of improving the upgradability of 'ware-heavy characters post-chargen, all of your proposals IMO go way too far. The biz should, in my opinion, involve trading your soul and never ever getting it back.

(As for other things that use Essence, Critter powers use it extensively, and Critters can have implanted 'ware as well.)

~J

[Jack Kain]

That is often forgotten when ware is removed essence isn't restored but their is an essece hole that can be filled in before any new essence lost occurs from ware.

For example, my character had Rating 2 Wired Reflexs (alphaware) 2.4 essence cost.
This created a 2.4 essence hole.

Later he had them removed and replaced with Rating 2 synaptic boosters. 1.0 Essence cost.
So he had a 1.4 essence hole to fill with new ware before he'd incurr any new essence loss.

[Crusher Bob]

One possibility is to simply increase starting essence. As long as starting magic stays at 6 (SR3) or is paid for as normal (SR4), you don't power by cyber-mages/cyber-adepts too much, since they would still lose magic based on the ware they get. Of course, this has plenty of follow-on effects on game balance...

[Thane36425]

[cetiah]

[Crusher Bob]

The follow-on effects are very difficult to show because the solution space (cyberware effectiveness + costs) are a complex problem.

One example is that upping starting essence is likely to lead to wired-3 being the new sam standard over wired-2. 3 points of essence left after wired 3 still leaves plenty of space left for useful upgrades. If starting essence is upped to 8, this leaves the same 3 points of essence left for all the upgrades available before, but you can have wired 3 instead of wired-2.

[edit]
The other thing to address is, what made you uncomfortable with just giving out a wad of :nuyen: instead?
[/edit]

[ShadowDragon8685]

Fat wads of :nuyen: are the industry standard.

Me, I like the idea that you can just buy Essense up normally. To hell with the fluff; a cap of 6 was an arbitrary number chosen was back in 1981 and it has never been thought of since.

You can explain it by saying that through intense meditation (or medication), and with therapy or dedication or whatever, all of which spends your Karma, you can increase the power of your soul. This will be appealing for mages because it will be an appealing alternative to Initiation, which has costs all of it's own - although it also has benefits, truth be told - but those who will benefit most will be Cybersammies.

Think about it. Mages and Adepts have had the ability to improve their 1337 past 6 since what, 3rd edition? 2nd? 1st? I'm not sure when Initiation came around.

But even with all Deltaware, 6 points of Essense only goes so far. The ability to buy it back in-game is appealing to me. And since they've never actually defined what Essense is... Why not?

There are two theories about Essense. The first, as I understand it, is that Essense is a stastical measure of your soul - the integrety of your Astral "self". I find the idea, then, that Essense could be destroyed by having bits of metal integrated into your wholely corporeal meatbod, to be patently ludicrous. You don't lose Essense for having bits of lead forcibly integrated into your meatbod, so why should you lose it for having very careful surgical proceedures done?


The second theory is that Essense is a stastical measure of the overall integrety of your central nervous system. While this seems more plausable on those grounds, I find it wholely ridiculous to believe that having bits of metal very carefully surgically integrated into your meatbod would then have a negative impact on your ability to channel the Astral and to use magic. Otherwise having bits of lead forcibly integrated into your body should likewise jeopardize your ability to cast, whereas without the use of OPTIONAL (and asinine) rules, it does not.


I'm not comfortable with either, really, since Essence was made as a balancing agent to ensure that Sammies coulden't just make a fortune and leave mages in the dust. But that long since fell by the wayside with the advent of Initiation, thus leading to Mages being able to spend Karma and Nuyen to go up in power with no upper limit beyond feasability and the point of diminishing returns, but leaving Sammies still capped. It's original purpose (preventing people from becoming so rich that they essentially become a cross between RoboCop and The Borg, and by so doing leaving Mages crying) has been rendered obsolete; something should be done to rectify this situation.


Me, personally? I'd allow Essense to be raised using the standard Karma cost for raising an attribute, with no cap. However, this would lead to the bookkeeping nessessity of "Absoloute Essense" and "Unused Essense", otherwise a Cybersammie would start with cyber that dropped him to something like 0.009 Essense, then buy a whole point of essense, and then buy a whole point worth of cyber.

Obviously, you pay towards Absoloute Essense, not Unused Essense. So your Absoloute Essense is 6, but your Unused Essense is 0.09: You pay 5*7 = 35 Karma to raise your Absoloute Essense to 7, and your Unused Essense to 1.09.

[hyzmarca]

It costs an Adept 20 karma to buy PP under the basic rules, so I propose a 'Ware cost reduction standard based on that old rule.

At the time of instillation, a character may spend karma to reduce the Essence cost of implanted ware at a rate of [Essence reduction = (log20)karma spent].
To put it another way, [20^(essence reduction) = karma cost].
Round normally.

I like the logarithmic scale scale because the costs for tiny essence reductions are far less than the costs for large reductions. Unfortunately, it is a bit inconsistent and exploitable. The cost of a .2 reduction is 2 karma while a cost of a .9 essence reduction is 15 karma and the cost of a 1.8 essence reduction is 220 karma and the cost of a 2 point essence reduction is 400 karma. It is certainly more economical to reduce the cost of two pieces of 'ware by .9 than to reduce the cost of 1 piece of 'ware by 1.8.

To avoid this problem, one might want to use a linear scale, with a karma cost of 20 times the essence reduction and the essence reduction capped at half the grade-modified essence cost.

[Moirdryd]

Erm... taking lots of Damage, towhit the forcible insertion of metal into the bodu does come with the risk of essence loss. Hence why Mages ect are Very careful about who treats them for injuries.

Essence is just that, Essence. It is what makes you Alive a combined factor or meatbod and astral presence/soul/spirit. Cyberware is unliving and so replacing a living portion of you body with an Unliving peice of machinery will rob the body of some of that `vital spark` or Essence.

Very true the number exists as a balance to Street sams vs mages, but if you want to go the way of full conversion borg body. Rifts is the way to go.

But then dont forget there are skills, none cyberware toys. All those flashy grades of ware (which are hell to get and although already mentioned you can get ahold of 11.999 pts of deltaware.... ever consider how much that really is? Plus another 3 , or more for cuiltured, Bioware...Before cybermancy if you have to go that far.)

Yon Adept or Mage also has to take soem time to do what they do. Cyberfreaks do it Now.... faster than that even with Move by Wire and Reaction enhancers.

[Wounded Ronin]

[Kagetenshi]

It doesn't regenerate, but as mentioned it leaves a "hole" that new 'ware can be implanted into.

What I want, though, is for magic to start reflecting that digging-a-hole. Magic as it is now is the single best argument for Horrors in Shadowrun—it's just too god-damned safe.

~J

[Sir_Psycho]

If you want to give your Sammy an archetype specific reward, then why not a new weapon (something very nice built with the firearm creation rules), or some free upgrades to his current weapons using the customization rules? And the ways sammies upgrade themselves throughout a game is with lots, and lots and lots of Nuyen. Once you have the money, you whip out your standard level 2 wires and chuck in some Delta level 3 wires, which are more effective and leave you with a more essence than you left off.

The way the game is built is that Magic characters are black holes for karma and sammies need less karma, but way more nuyen. Reflect this in your rewards.

[cetiah]

Cyber attribute (replaces the Essence attribute)

The Cyber attribute starts at 1 and can not be upgraded with Build Points.

A character who acquires cyberwear for this character also acquires an amount of Cyber equal to the "essence cost" of the item being installed. It is possible for Cyber to raise in partial increments, so a Cyber 1 character acquiring an item with a listed essence cost of .2 now has Cyber 1.2. However, all tests and threshold that use the Cyber attribute always round up, so his 1.2 would be considered "2" for purposes of calculating thresholds and such.

-A character's Cyber attribute is deducted from any magical healing received.
-A character's Cyber attribute is used as a threshold to determine if he can be resuscitated by advanced medical means.
-Each time Cyber is increased, Magic is decreased by a proportional amount. (Round partial Magic scores down.)
-The character receives a penalty to healing checks equal to half his Cyber attribute.

Each time Cyber increases by 1 full point, the character may choose one of the following abilities:

*) Machine Mind. The character's Edge score is increased by 3, but he no longer has the ability to spend Edge points after a die roll.

*) Machine Heart. The character may add a number of dice equal to his Cyber attribute to resist any mind-control spell.

*) Machine Body. Any character attempting a First Aid test on the character may use their Hardware skill in place of First Aid.

*) Machine Soul. The character no longer has the aura of a living person, but instead has that of a machine, resembling a dull nearly-transparent gray haze.



etc. etc..
You guys can probably come up with better ideas.

[ShadowDragon8685]

As I understand it, this DM is running for SR4. Not only does it not have weapon build rules...

But the point of Essense was to balance Sammies versus mages. However, my whole point is that THAT IS ENTIRELY USELESS NOW! Mages can Initiate, albiet at high cost, but their Magic goes up AND they get very cool perks.

What do sammies get? Jack Shit!


Kage, maybe not everyone subscribes to the "No matter what you do, you're phucked, use cyber, trade your soul. Use magic, summon Horrors. Use neither, and get pasted by those who do" treatment.


I, for one, don't. Yes, the 6th world is shit. But maybe you can change that, if only for a select few around you.


And maybe, just maybe, we want to play a fun game, where ultra-cool cyberware dosen't make a Sammie blanch and say "I can't use it". Because let's face it - there are some things that non-Cyber just cannot do as well or as coolly as cyber.

[Kagetenshi]

[Calvin Hobbes]

The idea of expanding the initiation system is my favorite of the ones listed. It kind of explains the "samurai" notion, becoming something more through internal processes.

[De Badd Ass]

If you got rid of essense, then you would just end up with a group of cyberware enhanced mages and adepts called sammis.

[Thanee]

[hyzmarca]

If you want to mess up high-grade magicians, how about forcing an initiate to make an Essence Test with a TN equal to his (current magic rating+new grade-essence). Failure causes the magician to permanently lose a point of essence, which can't be filled with cyber but which be geased to avoid magic loss?

This severely limits cybered multi-initiate mages.

[Sir_Psycho]

I'm just going to put this out there: You guys are freakin' me out, man!

[nezumi]

Don't give free essence after chargen, that's crazy-talk. At most, allow for the PC to 'buy' essence at 20 karma a pop (or more) to a maximum of 6.

Alternatively, go the CP2020 way. Every piece of ware's essence cost is variable. So instead of it costing 1 essence, it costs 1d6 * .3 essence or something like. This means he has the chance to install new stuff, but he still feels like he's losing something.

[lorechaser]

[Kagetenshi]

[Ravor]

Are you sure that Magic is bought based of the 'current' Value after losing through Cyber/ect and not 'total' value in 4th I could-of swore it was the other way around.

Oh well, that just makes burning a point of Magic for Cybereyes ect all that much more appealing because then you wouldn't have to pay 25 BPs for that final point of Magic...