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 alternate technomancers |
 Feb 2 2007, 06:16 AM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 870 Joined: 2-October 06 From: Athens Ga Member No.: 9,517  |
The main problem I have with Technomancers is that they are trying to do the exact same thing as Hackers. You have one character type trying to replace another.
What if we changed the focus of the Technomancer to change their role? Technomancers can do all that nifty stuff with Wifi so let's make that instead of regular hacking the point. Make it easy for them to get into commlinks and car computers and drones. Let them put up AR illusions and alter ads at will. Make them great at screwing around with the Wifi and AR. They become an illusionist in an AR world and not focus them on the traditional hacking at all. Their sprites could be focused on jumping from vehicle to vehicle instead of node to node. Instead of giving them complex forms of hacking programs give them complex forms as AR manipulations - something that doesn't really overlap with Hacking. Let them use a different set of things and give them their own niche. Maybe they could act like selective jammers to block a cop from calling for back up. Maybe they could make themselves invivisble to you by having your reality filter replace what it just saw behind you as in front of you, or add a solid AR ad betwen you and them. Make it so that the things that are hard for hackers are easy for them as long as it is out here in the wifi world. In the matrix they would have to get all the things a hacker would and so they can't automatically replace them. |
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Feb 2 2007, 07:15 AM
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#2
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
I would have no problem with that. Right now, the Technomancer's differences with the hacker are pretty limitted. But more importantly, they are poorly defined.
The CF thing needs to be dealt with. I mean seriously. Right now a Technomancer can't have Stealth, ECCM, Track, Spoof, Sniffer, Decrypt, Scan, Browse, Analyze, Edit, and Attack - which means that he actually can't hack at all. A radical reimagining of the entire CF experience is pretty much a requirement. The Sprite situation needs to be addressed too. But in this case, not from the TM POV. The problem is not Sprites, Sprites do their job just fine. The problem is with the Agent Smith problem. Once that's been solved, or at least hand-waved away, the Sprites have their opportunity to shine. Of course, Decompiling is a shit skill that is made out of shit, and something needs to be done about that. I would say that Decompiling needs to be useful for expunging any icon from the Matrix - not just Sprites. Then we're at a stage where Technomancers can have a legitimately different fighting style from Hackers. Hackers do Iconigraphic damage, and Technomancers actually banish Icons for periods of time instead. That would be interesting, and potentially game balanced. -Frank |
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Feb 2 2007, 09:27 AM
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#3
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,468 Joined: 5-December 06 From: Somewhere in the Flooding, CalFree Member No.: 10,215 |
My problem with CFs is that they have to be bought at a Rating, with the cost equal to that in BP...when in fact I think the rating of their complex forms should be prohibited by their Resonance. I think TMs should work along the same lines as Awakened, buying CFs at a base BP cost of 3 each and instead raising the Technomancer quality to 15 like that of a Full Mage. Then when Unwired comes out I would be happy qualities along the lines of the Aspected qualities in Street Magic but for TMs. So you could have your straight Drone TM or Hacker TM or Sprite TM.
Although this does make TMs more powerful, I think that is what they need, because as is TMs are far underpowered until they have a butt load of karma under their belt. This would also make the TM the undisputed king of the Matrix in the long run, but I don't think that is a bad thing. TMs can't do too much more than hack anyways with their restriction against Cyberware like Awakened, making the Hacker a very good Hakcer in the long run (not nearly as good as a TM could be) but also able to stay alive and maybe excell at combat as well. But this is IMO. |
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Feb 2 2007, 10:23 AM
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#4
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,498 Joined: 4-August 05 From: ADL Member No.: 7,534 |
my tm rules:
- they cost more right from the start (comparable to magicians) - CFs cost 5 karma and work at resonance rating - threading can either be used to give bonus dice to a test with existing CF (not increase the rating!), or emulate a nonexisting CF - tms have skinlink problems left to solve: Infinite sprite service problem (TMs can get sprite services using only the resource time, not money like magicians) concerning aspected TMs: would be nice, but forget the rules about aspected magicians, they are not well done and should not be used as a template |
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Feb 2 2007, 10:30 AM
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#5
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,498 Joined: 4-August 05 From: ADL Member No.: 7,534 |
I have a main probem with this: All of this IS traditional hacking. And at least for me, vehicles are nothing different from nodes. I would very much hear your ideas of how you would conceptually differentiate between "traditional" hacking and what you suggest for TMs. |
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Feb 2 2007, 02:51 PM
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#6
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Technomancer Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,638 Joined: 2-October 02 From: Champaign, IL Member No.: 3,374 |
Are you saying that they can't get them because people run out of BP when starting the character or is there a rule limiting these CFs tat I'm not aware of? |
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Feb 2 2007, 03:59 PM
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#7
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,498 Joined: 4-August 05 From: ADL Member No.: 7,534 |
Double logic(?) CFs, just like spells.
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Feb 2 2007, 04:02 PM
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#8
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Technomancer Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,638 Joined: 2-October 02 From: Champaign, IL Member No.: 3,374 |
That may be the case, but I only count 11 CFs in Frank's list and you could have a Logic of 6 (8 w/ Cerebral Booster and a lenient GM who allows that to increase the CF limit, too). Granted, I don't see too many TMs using up 25 build points to go from Logic 5 to Logic 6 just to get two more CFs, but it's possible.
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Feb 2 2007, 04:39 PM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 941 Joined: 25-January 07 Member No.: 10,765 |
I'm confused why this is important? Unless you suggest that this version of threading provides one use bonus dice or somesuch, rather than a sustained increase? I mean, a rating increase primarily serves as... bonus dice, right? |
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Feb 2 2007, 04:57 PM
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#10
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
because i think the whole radio brain thing is retarded, i like to focus on TM's other main ability: making their brain act like a computer. i think it'd be neat to allow TMs to have, say, smartlink complex forms, camera complex forms (basically transforming their meat eyes' visual intake into still images/video that can be transferred across the Matrix), etcetera.
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Feb 2 2007, 05:07 PM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 351 Joined: 17-February 06 From: San Francisco Member No.: 8,275 |
I hear that one. TMs should also be able to use Psyche to reduce their Threading penalty to -1 like Mages can, IMHO. |
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Feb 2 2007, 05:29 PM
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#12
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Technomancer Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,638 Joined: 2-October 02 From: Champaign, IL Member No.: 3,374 |
Threading Stealth is evil. You try to detect a TM whose hacking on the fly and has threaded their Stealth program to 8+. Sure they take a -2 for threading, though my character tried to convince me that Stealth was in use during hacking on the fly and, thus, the -2 didn't apply due to the FAQ but that one didn't work out. But, even with the -2 to her hacking pool she's nigh unfindable. But, if threading only adds bonus dice and not rating points, then this scenario would be circumvented as Stealth is not rolled during hacking on the fly, only acts as a threshold for the system's extended test. |
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Feb 2 2007, 05:35 PM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 941 Joined: 25-January 07 Member No.: 10,765 |
So.... Then there would be no reason to thread stealth at all? I mean, I'm sure it gets rolled some time, but essentially this makes a threaded stealth useless when it's only being used as a passive threshold... which doesn't make much sense to me. I mean, your munchkin aside, he's paying the penalty in dice wether or not he's rolling dice for stealth or exploit or shooting a freaking gun in the real world as long as he's sustaing that thread, he should get some benefit for it when the CF comes up... like he needs to avoid being noticed hacking on the fly Make sense? |
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Feb 2 2007, 05:53 PM
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#14
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,078 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 67 |
Yeah, I would have liked to have seen TMs handled like this as well. |
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Feb 2 2007, 05:57 PM
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#15
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Target Group: Members Posts: 72 Joined: 15-December 05 Member No.: 8,075 |
Do you have a problem with Shamans trying to replace Hermetics? What about combat adapts trying to replace sammys, or social adepts trying to replace faces? Technomancers are a different way of acomplishing a similar goal much like my examples. |
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Feb 2 2007, 06:36 PM
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#16
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Technomancer Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,638 Joined: 2-October 02 From: Champaign, IL Member No.: 3,374 |
The purpose behind threading stealth, under Serb's rule, would be when actively trying not to be detected by IC/Hacker matrix perception tests. I actually don't have much of a problem with the RAW regarding threading, but Serb's rule does make it a bit more dangerous for TMs to hack on the fly because, in that case, threading stealth wont' help. 'Course, once my player realized that she wasn't going to avoid the -2 by saying Steal was in use, she just started threading Exploit since she is actively using that one and, thus, didn't have to deal with the -2. Hacking on the fly takes generally one roll any more. |
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Feb 2 2007, 06:51 PM
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#17
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
The threading penalty only doesn't apply to the tests you are making with that program, not to any test you are making while using the form.
-Frank |
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Feb 2 2007, 06:56 PM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 351 Joined: 17-February 06 From: San Francisco Member No.: 8,275 |
What do you mean? I thought the sustaining penalty applied to all actions. |
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Feb 2 2007, 06:59 PM
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#19
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Technomancer Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,638 Joined: 2-October 02 From: Champaign, IL Member No.: 3,374 |
I read that to mean that the TM threads Exploit and, when using Exploit, does not suffer the -2 but for all other actions not using Exploit they do. How are you reading it? |
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Feb 2 2007, 07:21 PM
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#20
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 351 Joined: 17-February 06 From: San Francisco Member No.: 8,275 |
The only reference I see is on page 234 of The Book:
EDIT: You're right, I didn't realize they changed that in the FAQ. |
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Feb 2 2007, 07:22 PM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 941 Joined: 25-January 07 Member No.: 10,765 |
I just looked at the Threading paragraph again, it says nothing about not suffering the penalty for using it. It says simply that you suffer a -2 dice penalty to ALL TESTS for EACH sustained threaded CF.
Is this something I should be referencing magic chapters 'sustained spells' to clarify? Cause two seperate people have the same perception that I don't see... :( |
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Feb 2 2007, 07:27 PM
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#22
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Technomancer Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,638 Joined: 2-October 02 From: Champaign, IL Member No.: 3,374 |
Spike: see FAQ quote above. It's not in the RAW at all, it's a "clarification" from the FAQ which basically contradicts the RAW (making it really Errata and not a FAQ).
I guess it's to avoid the poorly rolled threading test which results in a +1 to the CF and a subsequent -2 due to the threading leaving the unlucky TM with a -1 over all. |
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Feb 2 2007, 07:28 PM
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#23
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
Oh heck no. You see, Threading blows monkey ass as written in the basic book. Threading up an Edit command is as close to useless as makes no odds. So the loveable scamps writing the FAQ gave it a sealth injection of utility - that the -2 penalty for sustaining a thread did not apply to your dicepool of the threaded application. That is, when you thread yourself +2 on your Edit command, you suffer a -2 penalty on all tests, except that now that doesn't include Edit tests. So while according to the basic book, you'd be -2 at all tasks except Edit which you would be at -0 at, you are now at -2 on all tests except Edit and +2 on Edit tests. Far out dude. --- That being said, it's still pretty underwhelming. And completely tosses the notion of not contradicting the basic rules in the FAQ. -Frank |
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Feb 2 2007, 07:30 PM
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#24
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Technomancer Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,638 Joined: 2-October 02 From: Champaign, IL Member No.: 3,374 |
You almost owed me a new keyboard on that one. Note to self; avoid drinking during DSF activities ;) |
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Feb 2 2007, 07:34 PM
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#25
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,512 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 392 |
Resonance Quests.
(See my post on the other thread). |
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