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Serbitar
post Feb 3 2007, 01:28 AM
Post #1


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At the moment a hacker can have a large number of agents by just uploading infinite numbers to nodes and giving them orders.

Same goes for corporations, they could just have infinite numbers of agents.


Why I dont think it is a problem from the hacker side:

Stealth: At least for me, hacking is about stealth. An attack with infinite numbers of agents will instantly be noticed. And the hacking run is essentially over. Thats why I dont think the agent smith attack will be used, especially in very certain situation, here it might even make sense.

My problem is the corp version. At the moment I am handwaving it away by invoking "traffic" and "miss alarm" arguments.

In my own hacking rules I suggest dice modifiers if a persona/agent is subject to several interactions in the same phase. Be it perception or attacks, making large numbers of agents virtually useless.
I handwave this with the following arguments: Attacking and perceptions are active interactions with the persona to get data the persona doesnt really want to send (perception) or to force malevolent code into the persona. Both is easier recognized by the personas "health" and "checking" routines if large quantities of malevolent code is injected.

Please post your assessment of the whole Agent Smith problem. What is the problem for you, is it one, and how could one solve it.
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Posts in this topic
- Serbitar   Agent Smith Problem   Feb 3 2007, 01:28 AM
- - BishopMcQ   As was discussed here, the Agent Smith problem has...   Feb 3 2007, 01:36 AM
- - Serbitar   QUOTE (BishopMcQ) As was discussed here, the Agent...   Feb 3 2007, 01:39 AM
- - BishopMcQ   1: If you can use the matrix as a relay, then plea...   Feb 3 2007, 02:01 AM
- - Serbitar   1: exactly the same way how two cell phones cann t...   Feb 3 2007, 02:31 AM
- - BishopMcQ   "no you can order a pack of agents" The...   Feb 3 2007, 02:33 AM
- - Serbitar   That was the comment. You can order multiple agent...   Feb 3 2007, 02:35 AM
- - FrankTrollman   Remember that for this problem to be intractable i...   Feb 3 2007, 02:38 AM
- - BishopMcQ   I was simply reminding you limitation of the subsc...   Feb 3 2007, 02:42 AM
- - Serbitar   You forget the agents you run on your comlink . . ...   Feb 3 2007, 02:46 AM
- - djinni   QUOTE (Serbitar) You forget the agents you run on ...   Feb 3 2007, 03:01 AM
- - Glayvin34   The best Matrix security is definitely physical se...   Feb 3 2007, 03:27 AM
- - Spike   I would suggest this is obvious: If twelve agents ...   Feb 3 2007, 03:27 AM
- - ShadowDragon8685   A Goon Squad of Agent Smiths would be an effective...   Feb 3 2007, 04:16 AM
- - Thain   The perfect solution for the Agent Smith Problem i...   Feb 3 2007, 04:23 AM
- - Glayvin34   And Serbitar mentioned that it's also exclusiv...   Feb 3 2007, 04:28 AM
- - Garrowolf   well this was why I was trying to point out in the...   Feb 3 2007, 04:39 AM
- - FrankTrollman   QUOTE (Spike) Twelve (thirteen) people all hacking...   Feb 3 2007, 05:11 AM
- - Alex   My solution for the Agent Smith problem: QUOTE (G...   Feb 3 2007, 08:43 AM
- - Thanee   Allow only one copy of each Agent to work at a tim...   Feb 3 2007, 09:09 AM
- - mfb   QUOTE (Alex) My solution for the Agent Smith probl...   Feb 3 2007, 09:10 AM
- - Synner   QUOTE (Serbitar) That was the comment. You can ord...   Feb 3 2007, 09:17 AM
- - mfb   yeah, but you can bypass the subscription limit by...   Feb 3 2007, 09:23 AM
- - Trigger   I have find it extremely hilarious that this threa...   Feb 3 2007, 09:31 AM
- - Synner   Subscribing a commlink to your commlink does not a...   Feb 3 2007, 09:42 AM
- - Garrowolf   Yes Irony abounds! Personally I think that ma...   Feb 3 2007, 09:45 AM
- - cetiah   QUOTE (Garrowolf) Agents go from an imbalencing lo...   Feb 3 2007, 10:01 AM
- - Garrowolf   cetiah, are you going to put all this up on a web ...   Feb 3 2007, 10:07 AM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   QUOTE (Synner) You are assuming you can route batc...   Feb 3 2007, 10:11 AM
- - Synner   QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Feb 3 2007, 10:11...   Feb 3 2007, 10:50 AM
- - Ophis   QUOTE (Serbitar) 2. thats actually working toward...   Feb 3 2007, 11:07 AM
- - Trigger   Extremely expanded bandwith and response, along wi...   Feb 3 2007, 11:14 AM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   QUOTE (Synner @ Feb 3 2007, 12:50 PM) QUOTE (...   Feb 3 2007, 11:28 AM
- - Serbitar   QUOTE (djinni) QUOTE (Serbitar @ Feb 2 2007, ...   Feb 3 2007, 11:44 AM
- - Serbitar   QUOTE (FrankTrollman) Unfortunately, the way thin...   Feb 3 2007, 11:47 AM
- - Serbitar   QUOTE (Synner @ Feb 3 2007, 10:17 AM) QUOTE (...   Feb 3 2007, 11:50 AM
- - kzt   QUOTE (Serbitar) Thats why I think the agent smit...   Feb 3 2007, 11:54 AM
- - Serbitar   I personally dont have a problem with this clever ...   Feb 3 2007, 11:56 AM
- - cetiah   QUOTE (Garrowolf) cetiah, are you going to put all...   Feb 3 2007, 06:00 PM
- - Synner   QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig) QUOTE (SR4v3 @ p....   Feb 3 2007, 06:35 PM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   The problem is that this limiter applies to everyt...   Feb 3 2007, 06:43 PM
- - FrankTrollman   QUOTE (Serbitar) I personally dont have a problem ...   Feb 3 2007, 06:59 PM
- - mfb   QUOTE (Synner)Thank you. I stand corrected. I had ...   Feb 3 2007, 07:35 PM
- - FrankTrollman   QUOTE (mfb) i like FrankTrollman's idea. two p...   Feb 3 2007, 07:57 PM
- - mfb   yeah. i like the rules more than i dislike their f...   Feb 3 2007, 08:42 PM
- - Synner   QUOTE (mfb) QUOTE (Synner)Thank you. I stand corre...   Feb 3 2007, 09:49 PM
- - mfb   eh. hack jobs that would get you a bullet in the b...   Feb 3 2007, 09:55 PM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   For anyone interested in the result of Zombie Wars...   Feb 3 2007, 10:04 PM
- - kzt   QUOTE (mfb) alternatively/in addition, Influence ...   Feb 3 2007, 10:08 PM
- - mfb   yeah, i realize the logic is kinda reversed from r...   Feb 3 2007, 10:22 PM
- - Serbitar   A Question Frank: Arent you just pushing the probl...   Feb 3 2007, 10:42 PM
- - FrankTrollman   QUOTE (Serbitar) A Question Frank: Arent you just ...   Feb 3 2007, 11:02 PM
- - Garrowolf   okay so it seems that people don't like the id...   Feb 4 2007, 04:27 AM
- - Garrowolf   QUOTE (cetiah) QUOTE (Garrowolf @ Feb 3 2007,...   Feb 4 2007, 04:51 AM
- - ShadowDragon8685   May I propose a much simpler soloution to the Agen...   Feb 4 2007, 07:51 AM
- - mfb   that's indescribably unrealistic, and doesn...   Feb 4 2007, 08:42 AM
- - Garrowolf   I still don't understand why we NEED agents an...   Feb 4 2007, 09:21 AM
- - kzt   QUOTE (Garrowolf) Basically using more then 1 or 2...   Feb 4 2007, 09:54 AM
- - Garrowolf   Then why not create a Denial of Service attack pro...   Feb 4 2007, 10:27 AM
- - Blade   My take on the issue (I have an "open" a...   Feb 4 2007, 03:29 PM
- - ShadowDragon8685   My soloution is simple, because it means that Mr. ...   Feb 4 2007, 04:25 PM
- - FrankTrollman   QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685) My soloution is simple, b...   Feb 4 2007, 07:17 PM
- - mfb   ShadowDragon8685, you have ideas about simplicity ...   Feb 4 2007, 10:21 PM
- - kzt   QUOTE (Blade @ Feb 4 2007, 08:29 AM) 1) Atta...   Feb 4 2007, 10:49 PM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   Like I said - look up Bluefrog. Things might bec...   Feb 4 2007, 10:54 PM
- - Blade   I know that all DoS attacks can't be prevented...   Feb 5 2007, 03:50 AM
- - Garrowolf   which is why I think that we need to keep the syst...   Feb 5 2007, 04:38 AM
- - kzt   QUOTE (Garrowolf) Are people afraid to remove them...   Feb 5 2007, 05:51 AM
- - FrankTrollman   QUOTE So far I have yet to hear a reason to keep t...   Feb 5 2007, 06:13 AM
- - Garrowolf   So the same solution works for both. Make it where...   Feb 5 2007, 07:01 AM
- - kzt   QUOTE (Garrowolf) So the same solution works for b...   Feb 5 2007, 07:50 AM
- - Blade   I get your point Garrowolf, but what of the IC ? D...   Feb 5 2007, 09:00 AM
- - Garrowolf   Treat IC as a local attack. If you leave the site ...   Feb 5 2007, 09:08 AM
- - Garrowolf   kzt the Pilot program doesn't leave it's s...   Feb 5 2007, 09:16 AM
- - mfb   this strikes me as being non-simple. you basically...   Feb 5 2007, 02:45 PM
- - FrankTrollman   It wouldn't even castrate them, or prevent the...   Feb 5 2007, 06:16 PM
- - cetiah   QUOTE ("FrankTrollman")It wouldn't e...   Feb 5 2007, 06:52 PM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   That's because decks were completly unhackable...   Feb 5 2007, 07:04 PM
- - mfb   QUOTE (cetiah)The only reason the agent problem ex...   Feb 5 2007, 07:35 PM
- - cetiah   QUOTE (mfb @ Feb 5 2007, 02:35 PM) QUOTE (cet...   Feb 5 2007, 08:10 PM
- - ShadowDragon8685   Is it now? What if said comlink is about the size...   Feb 5 2007, 09:03 PM
- - cetiah   QUOTE QUOTE (<Cetiah>)And in general I thin...   Feb 5 2007, 09:41 PM
- - mfb   yes, you should be using the same rules, because t...   Feb 5 2007, 10:06 PM
- - cetiah   QUOTE (mfb @ Feb 5 2007, 05:06 PM) yes, you s...   Feb 5 2007, 10:10 PM
- - mfb   no. but if he did, he'd use the same rules as ...   Feb 5 2007, 10:18 PM
- - Blade   Is it logical that "big" systems should ...   Feb 6 2007, 03:31 AM
- - Garrowolf   mfb WTF? How do you keep on going from a drone can...   Feb 6 2007, 04:46 AM
- - mfb   QUOTE (Garrowolf)mfb WTF? How do you keep on going...   Feb 6 2007, 06:19 AM
- - cetiah   QUOTE (mfb) QUOTE (Garrowolf)mfb WTF? How do you k...   Feb 6 2007, 06:56 AM
- - Garrowolf   mfb I'm not sure if you are missing the crux o...   Feb 6 2007, 07:23 AM
- - mfb   QUOTE (Garrowolf)If that actually were the case th...   Feb 6 2007, 07:54 AM
- - Garrowolf   see I think I see the problem. You are assuming th...   Feb 6 2007, 08:24 AM
- - Rotbart van Dainig   QUOTE (Garrowolf) You can't have a file on a s...   Feb 6 2007, 08:45 AM
- - cetiah   QUOTE (Garrowolf) QUOTE (cetiah @ Feb 3 2007,...   Feb 6 2007, 09:03 AM
- - ErrosCallidus   QUOTE (FrankTrollman) It involves the rolling of h...   Feb 6 2007, 09:43 AM
- - Serbitar   Wouldnt the agent smith problem be solved, if ther...   Feb 6 2007, 10:28 AM
- - cetiah   QUOTE (Serbitar) Wouldnt the agent smith problem b...   Feb 6 2007, 02:14 PM
- - mfb   Garrowolf, for pete's sake, read what i say. i...   Feb 6 2007, 03:27 PM
- - Blade   QUOTE (Serbitar) Wouldnt the agent smith problem b...   Feb 6 2007, 03:54 PM
- - Serbitar   No, because this is a) too restrictive, matrix c...   Feb 6 2007, 05:32 PM
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