Stealthy sam seeks stealthy weapons. Help? Options Track this topic Email this topic Print this topic Download this topic Subscribe to this forum Display Modes Switch to: Outline Standard Switch to: Linear+

[OSUMacbeth]

Long story short, my character is a street samurai with an emphasis on stealth. To pre-empt, yes, I know that adepts are better at stealth. Not my cup of tea. Moving on. The point of this post is that I'm looking for a method to neutralize any guards/threats I might come across in a reasonably silent, quick manner. I basically need some method that will end with a guard insensible (preferably not dead) without being able to radio for backup in the one combat pass he may have.

Tasers look good, as I can get off two stunning electricity shots before the guard can act. No muss, no fuss. I've also considered crossbows with injection bolts, shock gloves/hand/baton, or the Ares supersquirt. I originally liked shock hand/gloves/baton, but melee in general seems really weak unless you're an adept, and I keep asking myself "Why not just tase him twice and be more effective?"

My problem with the chemicals is that they take effect at the end of the combat turn. So perhaps my guard can radio for help or otherwise raise the hue and cry. Now, I'm wondering if he could radio for help if I got the drop on him. Surprise rules state that he can't act against me directly, but there's also a sentence that says he can't react to my actions in any way. If you take that as literal, though, I don't see what any character could do once surprised. Which brings us back to the original question: What do all you stealthy types out there do to put people down without alerting the house?

OSUMacbeth

[Spike]

I'd say talk to your GM. If the Taser takes him out, then its reasonable to assume he won't get to react, simple. You always risk the guy making his resist check or having electricly insulated armor (its in the book, after all)... but there you have it.

Not very ninja like, but then you are talking melee attacks, and poorly defined melee attack actions at that.

[Thain]

Ceska Black Scorpion, sound supressor, stick`n'shock rounds.

[Kyoto Kid]

...in the past, my the weapon of choice for several ofmy characters was the Super Squirt loaded with DMSO/Gamma S. Gamma S had an instant effect and usually knocked most targets (particularly guards & the like) unconscious with one shot.

While the Super Squirt is now in the SR4 BBB and available at chargen, two things make it less desirable:

1. You need exotic weapon skill to use a Super Squirt (in M&M you only needed pistols skill)

2. Gamma-S has a higher availability, thus keeping it out of the hands of starting characters.

[OSUMacbeth]

Also, no drug will knock someone unconscious until they've had one combat turn to act. I consider that a downside. :)

[ShadowDragon8685]

Two items for you:

Area Jammer (Rating 10)
White Noise Generator (Rating 10)

Granted, the WNG may not always be the best choice, but if you're in a normally loud, chaotic environment, the one combat round or so it'll be active won't get you noticed any more than shooting him with a taser or stick 'n shock will.

Also, don't use a taser. Get an Ares Predator or something bigger, and load it with stick 'n shock. For this application, it's okay to get a manhunter - you should have time to reload between zappings, after all, and the extra box will do ya good if he's got body to soak with.

[Konsaki]

If you are going with Stick 'n Shock, just buy a streetline special... Why waste your cash on a huge pistol when the SnS rounds ignore base pistol damage?
Remember, Stick and Shock is 6S(e) no matter what it is fired out of, even an IWK.

Or, you can just go 'Tazer' and carry around a legal defense item which doesnt require a Fake License...

[ShadowDragon8685]

[OSUMacbeth]

Ah, I probably should have mentioned. In our games, tasers are at the bottom of the loudness spectrum, below silenced pistols, which are below silenced automatic weapons. Supersquirt is also practically noiseless. We find that it maintains a more believable environment, and adds more meaningful choices during weapon selection. (True, a silenced MP9 is bloody silent, but the action still makes a decent racket.) Also, stick-n-shock has been downgraded (4S e) according to Serbitar's recommendation, as it made tasers generally quite pointless. Still on the fence as to whether to allow SnS to be used in automatics without the possibility of jamming. Our goal in this weapon re-balancing has been to provide more meaningful decisions to make between weapon types, and we've found it quite to our liking.

Based on the feedback from this thread, I believe my original inclination toward a taser was correct. Not quite as flavorful as a SuperSquirt, but again, my "stealth" weapon is rather pointless if the guard radios for help before falling unconscious. If only that microwave pain gun didn't almost certainly make you scream. :)

OSUMacbeth

[Nasrudith]

Remember called shots, if your hidden and your GM allows you to bypass armor send one taser dart from the single shot taser and you can take them out if your GM has a habit of nonconductive armor. Another alternative would be to use image magnification and gel rounds from a sniper riffle for more distance, the downside would be the noise of the riffle and the lack of concealability.

[Clyde]

Since Stick-n-Shock is out, you'll need other options. The taser is an excellent choice - it's quiet, does lots of shock damage, and forces a test to see if the target is stunned even if you don't get 10 boxes of damage.

For dead quiet, nothing beats a silenced .22 caliber pistol. The head of the OSS once demonstrated one to FDR by emptying it into a pillow while the President was dictating a letter with his back turned . . .

Retractable spurs do decent damage and ought to be quiet when used with a called shot.

For non lethal, you can try gel rounds. Combined with a called shot, that should put down a guard pretty easily.

If you still want to use drugs (and your GM likes the cinematic approach) you can palm a slap patch, grab the guard around his (exposed) neck with it and hold your (silenced) pistol to his head until he passes out. This is cheaper than a super squirt, let's you control the guard's fall, gives your GM plenty of options to create tension (if the story demands it) and doesn't require an exotic weapon proficiency. Moreover, it gives you an option if the guard has a filtration implant or an immunity to your knock out drug of choice. A stickler for the rules might declare you need to perform some kind of unarmed combat test, but against a guard you've surprisd this shouldn't be hard. You could try a similar move with shock gloves or a shock hand.

[MaxHunter]

One of the players in my group takes called shots with his predator and gel rounds. Of course, his character Harker rolls 18 dice with pistols so the guards are lucky he's silent.

Despite the absurdely maxed out example, it's the same skill you use for smoking people... Besides, Real Men don't shoot Squirt Guns nor shoot sparky wussy ammunition.

Cheers,

Max

[OSUMacbeth]

I'd say real men win the fight before the opponent knows he's in one.
:)

[Catharz Godfoot]

Narcoject works immediately.

[Garrowolf]

How about a silent invisible sleep gas with no smell? Just spray it ahead of you before you go around a corner. Wear a gas mask. Sneak in.

[Sir_Psycho]

What you need is Move-By-Wire :D for a stealth sam.

Although why does your sam need to use stick'n'shock or gel rounds or a taser when you can just use a silenced heavy pistol with standard ammunition? If you're playing a stealthy character, you should be trying not to be seen at all, and if you do get seen, headshot with your silenced pistol.

Because you're a Cybered character, getting a shock hand built into your cyberarm would be effective, and damned cool.

[Konsaki]

An unconsious body is so much easier to clean up than a bloody headless body...

[hyzmarca]

A strangled body is even easier still. However, for stealth I recommend exploiting the option to buy anchored spells and put Silence in your stick-'n-shock rounds. That way, the guards won't be able to call out for help if you fail to drop them in one shot.

[Ben]

i've always used the Ingram Smartgun X with gel rounds, very good since you have up to 3 RC, so you can burst your way into stunning guards silently with no recoil penalty. Well, at least it was very good before the errata, when gel rounds were +2S. I've not yet tried it with the new rules, but I could drop guards with a single narrow burst before (with a 14-dice pool), so I suppose it should not be a problem to stun a guard per pass.

[sunnyside]

I don't remember for SR4 but editions before that had penalties to being sneaky with burst fire.

My advice would be to have a couple weapons on you. The taser is nice but has a max range of 20 meters IIRC. Sometimes that will leave you coming up short. And some targets will in insulated.

Narcoject is also nice, but won't work on drones, and doesn't have the nice electrical effects.

Quite gas release is very stealthy. But contigent on conditions and is very short ranged.


So bring a few if you can.

[Dashifen]

[Jaid]

i assume that's a reference to the possibility of purchasing the services of a magician with the anchoring metamagic. frankly, while i agree it should be possible, i wouldn't expect it to be cheap, certainly not to the point where throwing it away (ie placing it on bullets) is a worthwhile prospect.

[Thane36425]

If your Sammy is very stealthy, he could creep up on the guard and stick him with naroject round by hand.

Something else to consider is the level of guard you are facing. Your typical run of the mill rent a cop would probably surrender if suddenly faced by a dangerous looking masked man with a big gun, followed by several companions popping up from behind desks and such. More hard core fellow would probably need the other methods talked about here.

[mrlost]

I'm playing a similar sort of character only I'm a hacker/rigger, though I'm very stealthy. I've had a lot of luck with my rating 4 bow and Narcojet injection arrows, and a Defiance EX shocker (which according to the description can be used as a hand stunner, deals 8S)

The Narojet arrows have been absolutely perfect when combined with my gasmask's vision magnification and a called shot (insta-elimination). I'll have you note I'm nowhere near as combat capable as our Tactical Mage or our Razor gal. But the injection arrows are perfect for a silent take down at long range.

[Cynic project]

Stealth is not only about being silent it is about being less noisey here than it is over there. One the best wa to do this is tohave bombs or remote controled wepons. After all if I stand next to a great dragon i may as well be invisable for all the effort most people would put into to trying to kill me...