Twink Tank, Mine name is Twink! Options

[Gamble]

After having a discussion with my gaming group and getting geared up to begin a campaign, we were discussing just how twinky you can get with just your standard 400 BP. We have our standards such as Street Sam and Mage etc. My roll is the tank ie Bullet Sponge/Heavy Weapons. I was curious as to what the denizens of Dumpshock could come up with for the "ultimate" tank. Leaning towards Troll but it isn't a requirement. Let the games begin!

[ShadowDragon]

Any houserules we should know about? Do you use the popular free charisma/contact points one?

[ShadowDragon]

Here's my twinky build. I stayed true to your focus while keeping him well rounded enough to not be a liability in social or stealthy situations, and his commlink, while room for improvement, doesn't leave him completely open to hacking. He also has a high edge to excel at anything in a crunch. He rolls 14 dice to dodge bullets (in full defense) and 25 dice to soak what's left; that's about as good as you can get without being completely retarded in other areas.

[ Spoiler ]

Nails the Troll (tough as nails, get it? :P )
Metatype (40BP)
Troll

P/M Attributes (190BP)
Bod: 9
Agi: 4
Rea: 5(7)
Str: 7
Cha: 2
Int: 3
Log: 2
Wil: 3

Special Attributes (40BP)
Edge: 5
Essence: 2.65
Init: 8(10)
IP: 1(3)

Qualities (-20BP)
Moderate Allergy, Common: Seawater
Incompetent: Swimming

Skills (94BP)
Heavy Weapons: 5
Dodge: 5 +2 (ranged)
Unarmed: 1
Perception: 4
Infiltration: 4
Etiquette: 1 +2 (street)
Intimidation: 2 +2 (physical)

Nuyen 249,885 (50BP)

Lifestyle
Low 1 month

Augmentations
Wired 2
Platelet Factories
Orthoskin 2
Bone Density 4

Commlink (3/3/3/3)
Novatech Airwave
Iris Orb
Analyze 3
Encrypt 3
Sim module
Trodes

Gear
Fake SIN rating 4
Contact lenses w/ low light, flare comp, and image link
Glasses w/ smartlink, vision enhance 3, vision mag
Glasses w/ smartlink, ultrasound
Earbuds w/ audio enhance 3, select sound filter 1
Armor Jacket w/ fire resistance 6, nonconductivity 6
Helmet
Ingram White Knight w/ external smartlink
Gyrostabilizer
200 rounds of regular ammo
50 rounds of stick n shock

Contacts (6BP)
Fixer 2L/4C

[Glyph]

ShadowDragon's is pretty good. Here's an adept one from me for the sake of completeness (although, being a twinky build, he's got bioware).

[ Spoiler ]

Heavy Weapons Tank
Race: Troll

BREAKDOWN (400 Points)
Core Attributes: 170
Special Attributes: 105
Race: 40
Active Skills: 68
Qualities: +30
Contacts: 4
Resources: 43

=Attributes=
Body: 9
Agility: 4
Reaction: 5 (7)
Strength: 5
Charisma: 2
Intuition: 3
Logic: 2
Willpower: 3
Magic: 6(5)
Edge: 5

Essence: 5.00

=Qualities=
Adept
Allergy - Silver (Uncommon), Moderate
Scorched
Sensitive Neural Structure
Sensitive System

=Active Skills=
Dodge/Ranged: 6/+2
Etiquette/Street: 1/+2
Heavy Weapons/Machine Guns: 4/+2
Intimidation: 1
Perception: 1
Unarmed Combat/Martial Arts: 2/+2

=Knowledge Skills=
15 points of Appropriate Knowledge Skills

=Bioware=
Synaptic Accelerator: 2

=Adept Abilities=
Combat Sense: 5
Mystic Armor: 5

=Contacts=
Fixer (Connection: 3/Loyalty: 1)

=Lifestyle=
Low (1 Month Prepaid).

=Equipment=
DocWagon:
Basic DocWagon Contract (1 Year).

Fake ID/Credsticks:
Fake SIN (Rating: 4), 2 Certified Credsticks.

Commlink/Programs:
Hermes Ikon Commlink with Custom OS (Firewall: 4 and System: 4), Trodes, Sim Module, Skinlink, and Subvocal Mic. Mapsoft (Seattle, Rating: 6), Virtual Surround Music, 2 VR Games.

Weapons:
>Ingram White Knight LMG with Skinlink Mod, External Smartlink with Low-Light, Flare Compensation, and Vision Magnification. Gyro-Stabilization Harness, 500 belted Rounds of Normal Ammo.

>ArmTech MGL-12 Grenade Launcher with Internal Smartlink (with Airburst Link), 120 HE Mini-Grenades, 60 Gas (Pepper Punch) Mini-Grenades, and 10 spare Clips.

Armor/Clothing:
Armor Jacket (with Fire Resistance: 6 and Chemical Protection: 6), Armor Vest, Helmet (with Skinlink mod, Display Link, Flare Compensation, Smartlink, and Vision Magnification), Ballistic Shield, Riot Shield, 1,000 Nuyen worth of Clothing.

Other:
Goggles (with Skinlink mod and Ultrasound), Duffel Bag (of 100 Nuyen cost), Wire Clippers, Chisel, Medkit (Rating: 6) with Supplies (x 2), Survival Kit, Micro-Transceiver (Rating: 6).

NOTE: If you want to squeeze out every last soak dice you can get, replace the Synaptic Accelerator: 2 with Bone Density: 4 [Alphaware] for the exact same cost. I would not recommend it, though. You are better off with the extra Reaction dice and IP.

[Gamble]

Nope. No houserules. Just the standard restrictions like they are laid out in the main sourcebook. And thanks Shadowdragon and Glyph for your input.

[Squinky]

Depending on how your group interprets cyberlimbs, you can always get 2 cyberhands and cyber feet with 2 points of armor each. Throw in some orthoskin or dermal plating and with a Troll, you can start with a natural armor of 11. Buy a camo suit and you are about as bullet proof as you can get.

[Leehouse]

That seems a rather broad interpretation of the rules, wouldn't you take the average of all natural armors, much like you take the average of other attributes as per page 335, the example text involving using the average body when being shot. Assuming dermal plating 2, you'd have an average between 2 and 3, if you replaced all your hands/feet with cyberlimbs.

[ShadowDragon]

[djinni]

[Squinky]

This issue has been done to death but here goes:

The averaging thing with cyber-limbs is referring to attributes, not armor. At least thats how it is written.

Armor takes up 2 capacity per point, so its not cheap capacity wise.

If you average cyber armor like people sometimes argue, it would just really suck. Example: you get one cyber arm and get 2 armor on it, then average that over 5 areas...you wont even have one point extra armor, and you lost 4 capacity in that arm.

Cyberarms are fricken strong metal like objects. Why do people get all up in arms over them being heavily armored when you can wear an urban explorer (speedo suit pretty much) and get 6 armor?

Edit:
I know my example was pushing it, but the title of this thread is about twinking.

[Glyph]

The urban explorer is a jumpsuit, which covers a lot of area, so it makes more sense than someone getting +8 armor from just his hands and feet being protected. In SR3, armor was determined by averaging the protection on limbs and torso. In SR4, though, the rules remain infuriatingly vague. Hopefully, this will be addressed in a future Erratta or FAQ.

Getting cyberhands and feet also presents the problem of having ratings of 3 across the board for things like gripping, running, firing a weapon, etc. This is another thing that I liked about the SR3 cyberlimb rules - metatypes such as trolls started out with a higher base for cyberlimb Attributes.

AAARRGGHH!!! I can't believe it! SR4 cyberlimb rules are sooo bad that I'm actually nostalgic for the SR3 rules!

[djinni]

since you are twinking out make sure to take a "Power" Spirit Pact, and make the spirit use "Hidden life" on you, so you'll get hardened armor.

[toturi]

I wondered when someone would post those up. Both the cyber limb armor and the Powah Spirit Pact. It's not twinking when you aint got no Spirit Pact.

[Leehouse]

[Glyph]

Actually, the example that Squinky gave would get eight more points of armor - two on each hand, and two on each foot. :cyber:

See, these kind of questions wouldn't come up if they had spelled out exactly how cyberlimb armor works in the basic rules. We need a handy guide to explain it to us, or at least a footnote somewhere.

[Gamble]

Certainly interesting to read. I checked with my Gm and he said that he might have to houserule the cyber but other than that, regular rules.

And since I only got a few replies for the troll tank twink, I'll open it up to see who can make the twinkiest character they can (but still abiding by the book rules). So let's see those sheets for twinky mages, sammies, technos, riggers, etc.

[ShadowDragon]

[Jaid]

cheesy twinked out techno-rigger, coming up:

race: ork (20 BP)
Attributes(cost): (170 BP)
B 4 (0)
S 3(0)
A 3 (20)
R 3 (20)
C 4 (30)
I 4 (30)
L 4 (40)
W 4 (30)

Special Attributes: (50 BP)
Edge: 2 (10)
Essence: 6.00
Resonance: 5 (40)

Qualities: (-20)
Technomancer (5)
Codeslinger (control device*) (10)
Sensitive System (-15)
Allergy (common/mild... i like sunlight and pollutants, personally) (-10)
Spirit Bane (type doesn't really matter) (-10)

* yes, it's technically allowed. no, i don't think this is balanced... but he asked for twink

Active Skills: (142)
Computer(analyse +2) 1 (6)
Software(threading +2**) 4 (18
pistols(semiautomatic +2) 1 (6)
dodge 1(ranged +2) (6)
gunnery(ballistic +2) 5 (22)
Pilot Groundcraft(wheeled +2) 5 (22)
Pilot Aircraft (specialisation of choice +2) 4 (18)
Influence group 1 (10)
Perception (visual +2) 1 (6)
Compiling (machine +2) 3 (14)
Registering (machine +2) 3 (14)

** not specified as allowed, but seems reasonable. if not, then i guess 'operational utilities', or whatever your GM thinks includes command. this is for threading, primarily for threading command, of course.

Knowledge Skills: (21 points of choice)

Complex Forms: (15)
Command 5
Analyse 5
Stealth 5


Contacts: (8 points, as desired; mechanic L2C1 and fixer L2C3 recommended)

Resources: (75k nuyen, 15 points)

obviously you need some armor and some basic weapons and running gear, probably a chameleon suit would be a good idea. other than that, pure drones, of various sizes and purposes. for combat, include steel lynx, doberman, or both types. rating 4 pilot and autosofts optional, bute recommended (break the copy protection ASAP of course). also recommend smart firing platforms on the drones, and good sensors of course.

now, this may not look twinky, but consider your dice pool when driving via remote control while in VR:

basic pool is 5 (command) +2 (hotsim) +2 (codeslinger) +5 (skill) +2 (specialisation) = 16 dice, though a 'mere' 9 dice for passive defense.

add in a registered rating 4 sprite "assist operation" to command, and a compiled rating 6 machine sprite with a diagnostics running (average 4 hits), plus thread up your command CF to 10 instead of 5 (no penalties when using command, otherwise -2 dice pool; accept no rolls that don't give you 5 net hits, and you should be able to handle most of the drain. the rest you can first aid yourself with an autodoc and your new command rating of 10 :D) and you have 10 (command) +2 (codeslinger) +5 (skill) +2 (specialisation) + 4 (assist operation) +4 (diagnostics) = 27 dice to driving tests, though a 'mere' 14 dice for passive defense.

hey, you did say twinked, right?

[Squinky]

The armor rules require a person to suspend their disbelief.

A character can purchase a ballistic shield that can add a whole lot to armor.

A helmet that covers a very small area (I know it is quite a vital area, but there are many good arteries in cyberlimb areas.) can add a couple points also. Why wouldn't a cyber-skull with a point of armor actually add a point?

Why wouldn't an armored hand add a little too?

I'm pretty sure (this is me speculating) that a cyber-hand isn't just a hand. It's metal reinforcement back to the elbow. A lower arm would need to have components and reinforcements back to the ball joint of the arm, and a full arm would have reinforcements through the pectoral area and shoulder blade area. Thats my opinion though, and it makes the armor as I interpret it make more sense.

Also, my interpretation makes cyber-limbs at least somewhat useful. As it stands nobody gets them. I get a lot more folks with cyber-hands in my games and I think it adds a certain flavor to the game that I really appreciate.

[ornot]

I'm with Shadowdragon. Combat is abstracted, so after the die rolls I'll decide if the target gets shot in the head or not.

[Glyph]

Other twinked-out characters...

Well, I statted out the monstrosity that came to be known as the pornomancer, although I made a mistake, since I gave the adept a mentor spirit, and only magicians or mystic adepts can take those. So the revised version:

Elf with 8 Charisma and 6 Magic. Qualities: Adept, Aptitude/Con, First Impression, Home Ground. Get Con at 7 and specialize in Seduction. For adept powers, get Kinesics: 5 and Improved Ability/Con: 3. For bioware, get Tailored Pheromes: 3.

That's 8 (Charisma) + 7 (Con) + 2 (specialization) +2 (Home Ground) +2 (First Impression) +5 (Kinesics) + 3 (Improved Ability) +3 (Tailored Pheromes) = 32 dice. :love:


I also recently posted a Gunslinger adept, who rolls 24 dice for his pistols skill, and his 18 dice for melee aren't too shabby, either. So here he is:

[ Spoiler ]

Adept Gunslinger
Race: Elven

BREAKDOWN (400 Points)
Core Attributes: 195
Special Attributes: 80
Race: 30
Active Skills: 72
Qualities: 0
Contacts: 6
Resources: 15
Bond Foci: 2

=Attributes=
Body: 4
Agility: 8 (10)
Reaction: 5 (7)
Strength: 2
Charisma: 3
Intuition: 2
Logic: 2
Willpower: 3
Magic: 5(4)
Edge: 5

Essence: 5.15

=Qualities=
Adept
Addiction - Stimulants, Mild
Allergy - Silver(Uncommon), Moderate
Aptitude - Pistols
Exceptional Attribute - Quickness
Sensitive Neural Structure
Sensitive System

=Active Skills=
Dodge: 3
Etiquette/Street: 1/+2
Infiltration: 1
Perception: 1
Pistols/Semi-Automatics: 7/+2
Monofilament Whip: 4

=Knowledge Skills=
12 points of Appropriate Knowledge Skills

=Cyberware=
Cybereyes II with:
>Flare Compensation
>Low-Light Vision
>Smartlink
>Vision Magnification

=Bioware=
Muscle Toner: 2
Reflex Recorder - Pistols

=Adept Abilities=
Improved Ability - Pistols: 2
Improved Reflexes: 2

=Bound Magical Foci=
Weapon Focus (Monofilament Whip): Rating 2

=Contacts=
Fixer (Connection: 4/Loyalty: 2)

=Lifestyle and Gear=
24,500 Nuyen left after buying cyberware, bioware, and weapon focus.

Of course, for maximum twinkage, you'll probably want to replace his pistols skill with either Automatics/Assault Rifles (with a tricked-out Ares Alpha) or Heavy Weapons/Machine Guns (with a tricked-out Ingram White Knight LMG). :D

[Tomothy]

If you're going to use a Power Spirit Pact why not make a Troll Physical Adept built for punching and give him a Pact with a spirit of Magic 6 and the power Energy Drain (Karma). Should have some rapid levelling effects?

[lorechaser]

[Jaid]

improved ability <skill> is affected by the skill cap. so a player would need <skill> 8 to get any benefit from improved ability <skill> 4.

and, incidentally, i believe the errata says that adepts can have mentor spirits.

[djinni]