Hardened Armor Options

[Prime Mover]

Question that applies both hardened armor and weapon immunity. When applying damage do you use full damage value if hardened armor total is exceeded or do you only apply damage that exceeds the armor value?

Recent example withering hail of gunfire fails to affect shedim, one adept with monowhip tears them to peices.

[domino10]

i thought that you had to roll to see if the armor takes the hit or not and then dependant on the number of hits that you get and the power of the weapon depends on how much damage you take

[Prime Mover]

Example; Sprits force is 7 its hardened armor against weapons is 14

Runner #1 uses full auto attack based at 5dv and gets 4 succes's total of 9dv not enough to get through sprits immunity.

Runner #2 used mono whip base 9dv and gets 5 succes's total of 14dv this goes through spirits hardened armor rating .....so does sprit then resist only 2 pnts that went over his immunity or whole 14? The former seems to make more sense and make things with hardened armor all but immune to small arms....makes sense to me...you?

[Demerzel]

If it gets past the armor it gets past the armor entirely. Then you roll bod + Armor to see how it is reduced (So some of the power will be reduced by the armor)

To put it another way.
I think you're asking if the armor value is directly subtracted from the Damage Value of the incoming attack. The answer is no. The DV is reduced not by the full armor value but by the hits on a body + Armor test.

[Jack Kain]

Ok here's how it works, you count the base DV of the weapon, the number of successful hits.

Modified DV equals base DV of weapon + number of net hits. (AP will reduce the armor rating)


The armor resist roll is done second. So if you have a monowhip Base DV 8 with its AP of -4. It will always overcome harden armor of 12 or less.

[Demerzel]

[Demerzel]

[Prime Mover]

Guess thing that got me mechanics of damage, guy gets one sucess over hardened armor value kills it outright, guy gets one sucess under armor value doesnt even scratch it just seems like large gap in damage as opposed to stepping it based on what would get past hardened armor value.

[Demerzel]

Well, getting a Modified DV of 15 against a Force 7 Shedim, means they roll 21 + The body of the occupied host (Say 3) for 24 dice. That's from 6 to 9 damage reduced, meaning not really killed outright.

Also that Shedim is rolling 14ish Dice to defend against the monowhip, so getting 5 net hits is a hell of a thing.

[Prime Mover]

[Jack Kain]

[Jack Kain]

Double Post Delete

[Demerzel]

[Prime Mover]

So assumeing you mean immunity is to be treated as "real" armor rating?

[Dread Polack]

The same thing came up in our campaign when one of us was shooting his sniper rifle with EXEX rounds at a Banshee. The sniper has base 10 damage, AP -5 and the Banshee had armor 18. After a lot of digging, we learned that when comparing damage to hardened armor (or for figuring out whether you do stun or physical damage with a lethal attack against an armored foe):

Compare modified damage to modified armor.

That is, compare [base damage+hits] to [base armor value - armor penetration value].

With a modified armor of 13, he only needed 4 hits to damage the banshee. He didn't get it with every shot, but he was able to blow bits off the bashee with his rifle. A Typical damage reduction test on a banshee (body 20) is 12, so he managed to knock 2 boxes off it's 18 with a successful hit.

Dread Polack

[Demerzel]

[fool]

one thing that seems to be missing in here is that it is mnodified damage. Now in the sr3 rules it was unmodified by burst fire, int he new rules, it doesn't say that. That means that the guy throwing a lead hose is going to get through most harderned armor. Of course I soculd be missing that opint in the bbb

[Demerzel]

There is a place in the Core book that says burst modifiers don't apply when comparing to armor. If someone else doesn't I'll get you a page number when I get home.

[DireRadiant]

p, 143

"Note that this DV modifi er does not apply when comparing
the DV to the armor rating."

[djinni]

[Demerzel]

[ludomastro]

I just re-read the combat section and can't find any mention of hardened armor. What am i missing?

[Demerzel]

What are you missing? The index. p345, the Entery labeled "Hardened Armor power"

It's a critter power. SR4 p288. In previous editions vehicle armor was considered Hardened.

[ludomastro]

Thanks! I am not sure why I missed that.

[Garrowolf]

I actually mix hardened armor and regular armor all the time in my games. I use the bitch format to note it.

B/I(H) Ballistic / Impact (Hardened)

(you I know there is no T)

so a combat vest could have 3/1(3). If you hit it with something with 3 or less base dv then nothing happens. Above that you would add the Hardened to the B or the I depending on the attack. So someone with a knife doing only 3 can be safely ignored. After that you roll as normal.

It's pretty simple.