Drug Prices Options

[TheOOB]

Perhaps I'm just completely inept, but I can't seem to find the prices for the drugs listed in SR4 anywhere, and I'd like to make a character who uses combat drugs as a way to boost their abilities.

[Ravor]

No you aren't, they were never included for some strange reason. I seem to recall someone had compiled a list of 3rd Edition prices on the forum at one time if you wanted to micromange the costs, or you could simply get your DM to add x% to your lifestyle costs and handwave it away.

[TheOOB]

Hmm, and I really needed to know the price of psyche for my next session...I guess I'll just have to work it out with my GM.

[nathanross]

What follows is SR3 material, so take it with a grain of salt.

Cost (xSM) Actual Cost (per dose)
Bliss(s) 15 (x2) 30
Cram(s) 20 (x1) 20
Deepweed -
Jazz 40 (x3) 120
Kamikaze 50 (x5) 250
Long Haul 500 (x2) 1000
Nitro(s) 100 (x1) 100
Novacoke(s) 20 (x1) 20
Psyche 500 (x2) 1000
Zen(s) 5 (x1) 5

(s) street drug, commonly available

God I feel sorry for all those mages hopping up on Psyche and the everyone else thinking Long Haul is an easy addiction. Also, dont even let characters get drugs for less than the street price unless they OWN someone in Star (Jazz), MCT (Psyche), or the other Megas for the advanced combat drugs.

[TheOOB]

If I'm correct, arn't SR3 prices inflated when compared to SR4? Shouldn't they cost a little less now?

Well like any RL drug, you can probally find it cheeper if you have a good dealer who you buy from often, so long as you don't get so additicted you'll buy it at any cost.

Even so, I guess a psyche addition may be a bit too expensive.

[ShadowDragon]

I houseruled the prices and availabilities along with more detailed rules for addiction. Just follow the link in my sig.

[nathanross]

Some comments on your house rules:

• Deepweed is WAY too inexpensive. Meth you can cook in the basement, Deepweed is specifically processed awakened kelp, how many dealers do you expect to find? Is your best friend a hougan?
• Long haul is also way too inexpensive. Too many characters see it as an easy addiction. It isnt.
• Novacoke is WAY too expensive. Of all the drugs excluding Zen, Cram and Bliss, Novacoke should be sold on most street corners and in all clubs throughout the metroplex. It is THE drug. And it is still basic chemicals and could be grown and processed in a basement.
• Bliss and Zen should be F, Long haul should be R at least and with much higher availability.
• Psyche should be over 14 availability at least. Seeing as it is the most rare and highly processed of all these drugs and known only to the Corps.

PS - Remind me never to read someone elses house rules again, makes my head hurt.

[TheOOB]

I also disagree with the amount of doses that are required for a moderate+ to get high. It should still only take one dose, they should just be high for a shorter period.

[ShadowDragon]

nathanross,

I consider deepweed to be common enough to a coastal city, especially when it has practical use and not just for recreation. Longhaul I imagine being something sold over the counter for the corporate workaholics. My players do not see any addiction as "easy." I really don't see how an addiction to longhaul is easy (especially not compared to say, alcohol). Novacoke's stat bonuses are too good compared to its downside to be any cheaper. Bliss and Zen I can see having the same use as medical marijuana. Psyche is already the most expensive drug with a relatively high availability.

Would you care to point me where you're getting your flavor text information for drugs from? I don't see where you got the idea that novacoke is sold on most street corners and all the clubs, or that psyche is extremely rare.

TheOOB,

It should really be both things if you want to reflect reality. I don't know how much first hand experience you have with drugs, but take alcohol as an example. As you gain a tolerance it takes more alcohol to get you drunk and it doesn't last as long. I opted for what I saw as the more practical option mechanically. Obviously no set of rules can be perfect. If you want to use a modified version of my rules, be my guest.

[nathanross]

I do agree with your dosage rules, but the rules and prices in SR3 are quite clear. Read Man & Machine. Now I must admit I am not and have never been addicted to drugs and I cannot honestly say Ive ever taken anything more than pot, but I know people and I know chemistry, and the market for some drugs just makes it easier to get a hold of.

As I see it there are x divisions of drugs in Shadowrun

• Street drugs - Bliss (heroin), cram (meth), nitro (pcp), novacoke (coke), zen (pot)
• Manufactured Drugs - jazz, long haul, kamikaze, psyche
• Awakened drugs - deepweed and others not yet mentioned

Now I know we are probably never going to agree on the pricing for most of these drugs, and I will lower my stance on psyche (though it should still be quite expensive), but NO WAY is deepweed common. Not only is the actual recipe known only to Voodoo Hougans, but I don't think all kelp in the Caribbean awakened allowing unlimited reagents for the creation of this drug.

I assume street drugs are called street drugs because they are just that, drugs you can get on the street. While some drugs you can manufacture using chemicals commonly available (meth, ex), some you need to refine a naturally grown plant (coca plant, hemp, or opium poppies) before you can use it. Now I assume that with a lawless area as big as the barrens, and with the technology of 2070 we no longer need to smuggle all of our drugs across national borders (which are even worse than today). Thus the available supply for mundane street drugs is almost unlimited.

Of course gangs and other syndicates want their cut, but even then, there are so many competition must be great, and the price can not go to high. Now for someone with no street knowledge or connections, getting the drug you need in 2070 aint going to be easy, but for those with ganger friends who live in the barrens, they know which street corner to go to to get what they need.

Now price for even beginning shadowrunners is never going to be a whole lot of an issue, and I feel that the description they gave for addiction as having to start borrowing money to fulfill their need is somewhat off since a shadowrunner will not survive if they are always crashing, and will never reach the point where they don't have enough money to pay for their addiction without someone else's help.

Anyways, my brain is empty, retort and then Ill be back.

[Ancient History]

[nathanross]

If they stay at least similar to SR3 I may be able to live with it, but the more they change, the more it hurts.

[Ancient History]

[nathanross]

10, you should know if you wrote it. Nothing updated drug prices since M&M and it has been 10 years since 2060.

Sorry I just love splitting hairs with the guys who decide our collective fate.
(Please dont squish me!)

[Ancient History]

Not gonna squish ya. Somebody has to keep me honest. ;)

[Moon-Hawk]

See, in my game I'd love to see more drug use, so I just give 'em away for free. If anyone calls me out on it I wave my hands and say "Lifestyle"
I guess if my players started abusing it I'd have to come up with a better explanation.
For me, it's a difference between realism vs what I want to see in my games. Realistically, drugs can cost a lot of money and people can/will/do pay that amount. In a game where a character is the one doing the drugs and the player is the one making the decisions, there is a level of detachment that lets them make, shall we say, more frugal decisions. So if I want to see more drug use in my games and I want my players to spend their characters' hard-earned nuyen on drugs, I make them cheap-as-free and handwave the rest.
Like I said, if this ever became an issue then I'd probably claim that the abuser's use was exceeding his/her lifestyle and make up a cost that brings back some balance, but I really haven't had that problem.

[Jaid]

[nathanross]

[Ancient History]

"Sure, I have a nice high lifestyle. That means I live in a coffin motel and spend nine grand on nose snacks every month."

[nathanross]

Mmmmmmm, delicious........ :spin:

[lorechaser]

[nathanross]

[Edge2054]

*Performs thread necromancy*

Psyche abuse (and I mean the power gamer kind not the addiction kind) has cropped up in the campaign I'm currently playing in.

RAW prices and availability are in Arsenal right? Anyone with the pdf mind sharing what those might be? Our group's waiting till it comes out in book form to pick it up.

[Stahlseele]

i think psyche can be found on page 250 of the SR4 Core Book . . i might be wrong O.o
yeah, there it is, but i did not find price/availability in either SR4 Core or Arsenal x.x

[Sir_Psycho]

On one hand I wish they'd just throw it into the errata with a "oops, did we really forget to put prices in that section?" comment. On the other, I like the SR4 drug rules being more about RP than about dice. The game givesthe GM an OPTION to punish those who abuse the drug for metagaming, munchy purposes, but it's unlike SR3, where the game demanded you scrap character sheets after they took drugs three times.