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TheOOB
Perhaps I'm just completely inept, but I can't seem to find the prices for the drugs listed in SR4 anywhere, and I'd like to make a character who uses combat drugs as a way to boost their abilities.
Ravor
No you aren't, they were never included for some strange reason. I seem to recall someone had compiled a list of 3rd Edition prices on the forum at one time if you wanted to micromange the costs, or you could simply get your DM to add x% to your lifestyle costs and handwave it away.
TheOOB
Hmm, and I really needed to know the price of psyche for my next session...I guess I'll just have to work it out with my GM.
nathanross
What follows is SR3 material, so take it with a grain of salt.

Cost (xSM) Actual Cost (per dose)
Bliss(s) 15 (x2) 30
Cram(s) 20 (x1) 20
Deepweed -
Jazz 40 (x3) 120
Kamikaze 50 (x5) 250
Long Haul 500 (x2) 1000
Nitro(s) 100 (x1) 100
Novacoke(s) 20 (x1) 20
Psyche 500 (x2) 1000
Zen(s) 5 (x1) 5

(s) street drug, commonly available

God I feel sorry for all those mages hopping up on Psyche and the everyone else thinking Long Haul is an easy addiction. Also, dont even let characters get drugs for less than the street price unless they OWN someone in Star (Jazz), MCT (Psyche), or the other Megas for the advanced combat drugs.
TheOOB
If I'm correct, arn't SR3 prices inflated when compared to SR4? Shouldn't they cost a little less now?

Well like any RL drug, you can probally find it cheeper if you have a good dealer who you buy from often, so long as you don't get so additicted you'll buy it at any cost.

Even so, I guess a psyche addition may be a bit too expensive.
ShadowDragon
I houseruled the prices and availabilities along with more detailed rules for addiction. Just follow the link in my sig.
nathanross
Some comments on your house rules:
  • Deepweed is WAY too inexpensive. Meth you can cook in the basement, Deepweed is specifically processed awakened kelp, how many dealers do you expect to find? Is your best friend a hougan?
  • Long haul is also way too inexpensive. Too many characters see it as an easy addiction. It isnt.
  • Novacoke is WAY too expensive. Of all the drugs excluding Zen, Cram and Bliss, Novacoke should be sold on most street corners and in all clubs throughout the metroplex. It is THE drug. And it is still basic chemicals and could be grown and processed in a basement.
  • Bliss and Zen should be F, Long haul should be R at least and with much higher availability.
  • Psyche should be over 14 availability at least. Seeing as it is the most rare and highly processed of all these drugs and known only to the Corps.

PS - Remind me never to read someone elses house rules again, makes my head hurt.
TheOOB
I also disagree with the amount of doses that are required for a moderate+ to get high. It should still only take one dose, they should just be high for a shorter period.
ShadowDragon
nathanross,

I consider deepweed to be common enough to a coastal city, especially when it has practical use and not just for recreation. Longhaul I imagine being something sold over the counter for the corporate workaholics. My players do not see any addiction as "easy." I really don't see how an addiction to longhaul is easy (especially not compared to say, alcohol). Novacoke's stat bonuses are too good compared to its downside to be any cheaper. Bliss and Zen I can see having the same use as medical marijuana. Psyche is already the most expensive drug with a relatively high availability.

Would you care to point me where you're getting your flavor text information for drugs from? I don't see where you got the idea that novacoke is sold on most street corners and all the clubs, or that psyche is extremely rare.

TheOOB,

It should really be both things if you want to reflect reality. I don't know how much first hand experience you have with drugs, but take alcohol as an example. As you gain a tolerance it takes more alcohol to get you drunk and it doesn't last as long. I opted for what I saw as the more practical option mechanically. Obviously no set of rules can be perfect. If you want to use a modified version of my rules, be my guest.
nathanross
I do agree with your dosage rules, but the rules and prices in SR3 are quite clear. Read Man & Machine. Now I must admit I am not and have never been addicted to drugs and I cannot honestly say Ive ever taken anything more than pot, but I know people and I know chemistry, and the market for some drugs just makes it easier to get a hold of.

As I see it there are x divisions of drugs in Shadowrun
  • Street drugs - Bliss (heroin), cram (meth), nitro (pcp), novacoke (coke), zen (pot)
  • Manufactured Drugs - jazz, long haul, kamikaze, psyche
  • Awakened drugs - deepweed and others not yet mentioned

Now I know we are probably never going to agree on the pricing for most of these drugs, and I will lower my stance on psyche (though it should still be quite expensive), but NO WAY is deepweed common. Not only is the actual recipe known only to Voodoo Hougans, but I don't think all kelp in the Caribbean awakened allowing unlimited reagents for the creation of this drug.

I assume street drugs are called street drugs because they are just that, drugs you can get on the street. While some drugs you can manufacture using chemicals commonly available (meth, ex), some you need to refine a naturally grown plant (coca plant, hemp, or opium poppies) before you can use it. Now I assume that with a lawless area as big as the barrens, and with the technology of 2070 we no longer need to smuggle all of our drugs across national borders (which are even worse than today). Thus the available supply for mundane street drugs is almost unlimited.

Of course gangs and other syndicates want their cut, but even then, there are so many competition must be great, and the price can not go to high. Now for someone with no street knowledge or connections, getting the drug you need in 2070 aint going to be easy, but for those with ganger friends who live in the barrens, they know which street corner to go to to get what they need.

Now price for even beginning shadowrunners is never going to be a whole lot of an issue, and I feel that the description they gave for addiction as having to start borrowing money to fulfill their need is somewhat off since a shadowrunner will not survive if they are always crashing, and will never reach the point where they don't have enough money to pay for their addiction without someone else's help.

Anyways, my brain is empty, retort and then Ill be back.
Ancient History
QUOTE (nathanross)
Now I know we are probably never going to agree on the pricing for most of these drug

Oh, I quite disagree. We'll all agree when they finally get printed. smile.gif
nathanross
If they stay at least similar to SR3 I may be able to live with it, but the more they change, the more it hurts.
Ancient History
QUOTE (nathanross)
If they stay at least similar to SR3 I may be able to live with it, but the more they change, the more it hurts.

Yeah, 'cause in real life street prices for drugs don't fluctuate over a period of five years. Uh-huh.
nathanross
10, you should know if you wrote it. Nothing updated drug prices since M&M and it has been 10 years since 2060.

Sorry I just love splitting hairs with the guys who decide our collective fate.
(Please dont squish me!)
Ancient History
Not gonna squish ya. Somebody has to keep me honest. wink.gif
Moon-Hawk
See, in my game I'd love to see more drug use, so I just give 'em away for free. If anyone calls me out on it I wave my hands and say "Lifestyle"
I guess if my players started abusing it I'd have to come up with a better explanation.
For me, it's a difference between realism vs what I want to see in my games. Realistically, drugs can cost a lot of money and people can/will/do pay that amount. In a game where a character is the one doing the drugs and the player is the one making the decisions, there is a level of detachment that lets them make, shall we say, more frugal decisions. So if I want to see more drug use in my games and I want my players to spend their characters' hard-earned nuyen on drugs, I make them cheap-as-free and handwave the rest.
Like I said, if this ever became an issue then I'd probably claim that the abuser's use was exceeding his/her lifestyle and make up a cost that brings back some balance, but I really haven't had that problem.
Jaid
QUOTE (Moon-Hawk)
See, in my game I'd love to see more drug use, so I just give 'em away for free. If anyone calls me out on it I wave my hands and say "Lifestyle"

i would say that depends, really. if someone has squatter lifestyle, i wouldn't have that cover the more expensive drugs, personally. i mean, sure, if they're using one or two doses of cram a week, that's fine, but psyche or long haul are more expensive (OTOH, if someone has high or luxury lifestyle, i would be more likely to allow it).
nathanross
QUOTE (Moon-Hawk)
See, in my game I'd love to see more drug use, so I just give 'em away for free. If anyone calls me out on it I wave my hands and say "Lifestyle"

Damn dude, I cant believe I never thought of that before. It fits perfectly with SR4 simplicity. No micromanaging addictions, nice.

Ancient History
"Sure, I have a nice high lifestyle. That means I live in a coffin motel and spend nine grand on nose snacks every month."
nathanross
Mmmmmmm, delicious........ spin.gif
lorechaser
QUOTE (Ancient History)
QUOTE (nathanross @ Mar 9 2007, 08:31 PM)
Now I know we are probably never going to agree on the pricing for most of these drug

Oh, I quite disagree. We'll all agree when they finally get printed. smile.gif

Um, AH?

Do you remember where you're posting?

We'll agree when they get printed?

I mean, sure, toturi will consider the matter settled, but printed costs just mean we have official numbers to disagree with, rather than houseruled. wink.gif
nathanross
QUOTE (nathanross)
If they stay at least similar to SR3 I may be able to live with it, but the more they change, the more it hurts.

My thinking exactly.
Edge2054
*Performs thread necromancy*

Psyche abuse (and I mean the power gamer kind not the addiction kind) has cropped up in the campaign I'm currently playing in.

RAW prices and availability are in Arsenal right? Anyone with the pdf mind sharing what those might be? Our group's waiting till it comes out in book form to pick it up.
Stahlseele
i think psyche can be found on page 250 of the SR4 Core Book . . i might be wrong O.o
yeah, there it is, but i did not find price/availability in either SR4 Core or Arsenal x.x
Sir_Psycho
On one hand I wish they'd just throw it into the errata with a "oops, did we really forget to put prices in that section?" comment. On the other, I like the SR4 drug rules being more about RP than about dice. The game givesthe GM an OPTION to punish those who abuse the drug for metagaming, munchy purposes, but it's unlike SR3, where the game demanded you scrap character sheets after they took drugs three times.
Mx
Prices and availability of drugs can be found in Arsenall in compiled tables in the back of the book.
Psyche for example is 200 nuyen.gif a dose and no availability(meaning fully legal and availebull every where)
kanislatrans
to throw in my 2 on the subject

Drug prices vary greatly depending on supply and demand. for instance, back when I was living the vida loca, in the small town where I grew up, a 1/4 oz. of really crappy Marijuana cost about 65 bucks. However when I moved to Albuquerque NM, the going rate for a 1/4 LB of really wicked mexican dope was 65 bucks.
In more urban areas stuff will be cheaper as it is usually a higher customer base and there for a larger supply coming in. basic economics, the reason the war on drugs is such a failure<IMHO)
how you run it in-game is really up to the GM, but personally,as a recovering addict, I don't like to give my characters the addiction neg quality . Been there in RL, bought the teeshirt, and still have the scars to prove it spin.gif
Edge2054
QUOTE (Mäx @ Mar 9 2008, 12:19 PM) *
Prices and availability of drugs can be found in Arsenall in compiled tables in the back of the book.
Psyche for example is 200 nuyen.gif a dose and no availability(meaning fully legal and availebull every where)


Thanks Max smile.gif

So our power gamer is assuming he's spending 600 nuyen a day on the stuff, that gets pretty expensive nyahnyah.gif
bibliophile20
QUOTE (Sir_Psycho @ Mar 9 2008, 07:25 AM) *
unlike SR3, where the game demanded you scrap character sheets after they took drugs three times.

Explain, please. *is honestly curious*
Elve
QUOTE (Edge2054 @ Mar 9 2008, 11:21 PM) *
Thanks Max smile.gif

So our power gamer is assuming he's spending 600 nuyen a day on the stuff, that gets pretty expensive nyahnyah.gif


That also gets addiction fast up to Burnout... which costs Essence

You can also factor in the Tolerance rules from Arsenal (??), which basically means he quickly needs way larger amounts (and thus more money)
Sir_Psycho
QUOTE (bibliophile20 @ Mar 9 2008, 06:31 PM) *
Explain, please. *is honestly curious*

First of all, the amount of number crunching involved in taking the drugs. The addiction, tolerance, withdrawal, fix factor etc. rules are incredibly complex. I was about to write you out an example, but it would honestly take me quite a long time. My rule fu is really lacking compared to the potency of some dumpshockers.

Maybe some-one else could indulge you. Or maybe they're not as bad as I thought. My understanding was that in Shadowrun, ruleswise, you could not sustain a small addiction for very long. Because fairly quickly, unless your character has a very high willpower and body (like, 5,6+) you're likely addicted the first time your character takes a substance. And then it's a pretty quick road to a serious addiction, whereupon you begin to lose essence and damage boxes.

From what I've seen of the drug rules for SR4, they're a little more focused on roleplay, rather than crunching. But there's still some numbers there to use, but they're mainly in a "in case of munchkins, break glass." contingency.
Edge2054
QUOTE (Elve @ Mar 9 2008, 10:45 PM) *
That also gets addiction fast up to Burnout... which costs Essence

You can also factor in the Tolerance rules from Arsenal (??), which basically means he quickly needs way larger amounts (and thus more money)


As was pointed out by the player, his chances of failing an addiction test are pretty slim (dwarven magician).

Tolerance rules will work though.

This is the first fourth edition game our group has started so we're still learning some of the ins and outs and more game breaking oversights in the main book.

We're into the fifth or so session and because no cost was ever listed on psyche the player's been assuming it's small enough his character can be on it every waking moment. Once the player gets hit with the 400 nuyen a day upkeep on his drug addiction I think he'll be a bit less liberal with it's use. The game we're playing isn't high powered (non-munched 400 BP characters, most of us roll about 12 dice in our area of specialization) and our characters are only pulling down about 10k a month. 400 a day should be prohibitive enough.
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