 A few questions on Regeneration |
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 Nov 9 2003, 04:54 PM
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#76
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Traumatizing players since 1992  Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220  |
And the opposing viewpoint is, it specifically states that death is not suffered if that roll is not failed. Nothing is bringing him back from the dead, because by making that roll he did not die.
I propose that death is not a "would penalty" the wound penalty are the specific penalties at light, moderate, serious, and deadly. Death ends all wound penalties. It says they die only if that roll is not made, otherwise they regenerate. It doesn't do any good to argue about this. It's not directly addresses and everyone is going to do what they want anyway. It's ambiguous enough depending on what you infer we can all be right or we can all be wrong. |
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Nov 9 2003, 05:38 PM
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#77
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,138 Joined: 10-June 03 From: Tennessee Member No.: 4,706 |
True. The thing is, the rules are silent on damage past deadly, and all of it is moot. However, I was initiatlly arguing against someone saying that the "overdamage = death" argument couldn't be true. It really could go either way. The sticking point is the delay between the regenerate roll and the time when it actually heals the damage. The way I would fix it in my game (provided I ever had a shape shifter player or NPC where it was important): When damage reaches or exceeds deadly, the d6 roll is made. If it succeeds, all damage is immediately healed, though wound penalties apply till the start of the next combat round. If the damage was sufficient to reach body + 1 overflow, the damage counts as massive trauma and the regenerate roll fails on 1 & 2, regulardless of the specific nature of the damage. In all other respects, the power works as written. |
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Nov 9 2003, 05:53 PM
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#78
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
So the trick is to shoot a shifter first with a shotgun, then a heavy pistol, and finally follow it up with a PAC for a total of 19 boxes?
~J |
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Nov 10 2003, 05:12 AM
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#79
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,685 Joined: 17-August 02 Member No.: 3,123 |
It doesn't actually say that anywhere, though.
Nor does it say that. It says they may die if the roll is not made, this is not the same as saying that they may only die if the roll is not made. I see two arguments so far: that death can be reversed via regeneration, and that the "damage penalties" mentioned in the text refer only to target number and initiative penalties, not to other peripheral effects such as death. If you say that death may be reversed by regeneration, then why must shapeshifters ever die? After a failed roll a comrade can hit their corpse with another hunk of deadly damage and they've got another chance to wake up. They make the test every time they take deadly damage in one shot and dying doesn't affect their ability to regenerate, so shifters should be easily revivable any time after death. If you say that the "damage penalty" only applies to TN and initiative penalties, then I ask: do you allow a shifter who makes his roll to use the Quick Strike adept power for the rest of the turn? They've taken assloads of damage (which remains until the turn is over), but they are, under this notion, immune to any effects of their damage other than target number and initiative penalties. They should be able to use Quick Strike despite their massive gushing wounds. |
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Nov 10 2003, 06:06 AM
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#80
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Target Group: Members Posts: 71 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,832 |
Actually, I see two different arguements: 1) The book does say something; 2) The book doesn't say something. The problem is the rules are fragged up, and people are making guesses that are completely off the wall in a feeble attempt to support their claims. This'll piss several people off I'm sure, but here's an example. I'm not gay. Has anyone else said they're not gay on DSF, (and if you have, hey, you're exempt!) That means everyone else on DSF must be gay right? I mean, they didn't say they weren't gay, right?! (This is an extreme example, and is just that, an example to prove my point. DON'T READ TOO FAR BETWEEN THE LINES!) On the other side of the coin, what the book does say is indeed incomplete; it doesn't give enough information to account for the majority of the situations Shifters will find themselves in with their Regeneration power. Right now I'm having to say that there are too many holes in the rules to run a Shapeshifter character without several houserules. Of course, if someone as a GM isn't willing to houserul Shifters as they see fit, they shouldn't let them run. I think that's all it comes down to. |
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Nov 10 2003, 01:51 PM
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#81
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Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,548 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760 |
Corwyn called me gay!!
Okay, I just had to say that. But yes, good post, right on. |
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Nov 10 2003, 02:52 PM
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#82
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Mein Gott, I'm surrounded by purple cows!
~J, not a purple cow |
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Nov 10 2003, 03:26 PM
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#83
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 280 Joined: 22-October 03 Member No.: 5,757 |
You know this regeneration talk makes me worry about Sadists getting hold of beings that can regenerate. I mean you could go hogwild forever and never worry about lasting damage. Sounds like my dream come true Mwhahahaha
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Nov 10 2003, 03:36 PM
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#84
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Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,548 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760 |
'my'?
I'd like to point out that an awful lot of regenerating creatures tend to be predators, and predators tend to fall into the sadist categories themselves... Plus they have super human power and have no qualms about eating people. They also seem to have an uncanny ability to escape confinement. Sounds like some of them would love for you to jaunt on over and hit them (I can just imagine the look on a were tiger's face as you smack it across the muzzle once or twice.) |
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Nov 10 2003, 05:55 PM
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#85
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 280 Joined: 22-October 03 Member No.: 5,757 |
er did I say 'my'? no no I ment um... crap... my secret's out. Prepare to die!
I ment my character, he's got a bit of a thing for torture. He's a freak. but anyways there are ways to restrain regenerating creatures even ones with superhuman powers. Can anyone say bone staples and warded coffins? Shock manacles and BTL feeds directly to the brain and some mage masks. a bone staple is just a giant U that is stuck through the flesh on either side of the bone and then into a board or whatever you tie them to. Flesh heals over the wounds, thier bones are held in place. Sure they might be able to break thier arm or break it off to get out. but if you have enough staples they won't have the mobility to do so. Well thats enough of me giving out my trade secrets! |
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