Smartlink vs. Laser Sight - Dumpshock Forums

Smartlink vs. Laser Sight, Sharks with lasers... or smartlinks?

yoippari View Member Profile	Mar 15 2007, 01:06 AM Post #1
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 375 Joined: 15-November 06 From: Salem, Dwarven Hell (Tir Tairngier) Member No.: 9,865	I have I think 4 characters right now and not one of them has a laser sight. Does anyone even use laser sights? I mean they give +1 instead of the +2 from smartlinks and I guess they can be combined with tracer rounds in automatic weapons but that seems to be the only thing going for it. Smartlinks allow faster reloading, and firing around corners mostly. I guess there can be other creative uses but very little is comming to mind. Lasers are +100 and can be switched between weapons. Smartlink is +500/+1000 for goggles/cybereyes to go along with the image links that anyone with a commlink has and +400 each weapon. So, how many of you actually use laser sights on a regular basis and why?

MaxHunter View Member Profile	Mar 15 2007, 01:15 AM Post #2
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 718 Joined: 10-September 05 From: Montevideo, in the elusive shadows of Latin America Member No.: 7,727	adepts who would not burn magic for the smartlink? - ok, they could manage with goggles or so, but I have a player in my group who chose the manhunter with laser sights and has not complained. The other characters who play with that adept all have smartlinks, so the odds are not good for the laser sight I guess. cheers, max

Ravor View Member Profile	Mar 15 2007, 01:19 AM Post #3
Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361	Although none of my players use a laser sight over a smartlink, you forgot to mention something else that laser sights can do that smartlinks can't... You get that +1 bonus from using a laser sight just by picking up your weapon, you don't have to worry about sneaking any extra devices past security and your buddy will get that same +1 bonus if you need to loan him your gun in the middle of a fire-fight for whatever reason. (Maybe he fell victim to my second example.) Also a laser sight can NEVER be hacked, although I've always been a big surporter of setting up seperate PANs and using skinlink/DNI as being the 'default' set-ups for both runners and corp sec-guards despite what RAW tries to tell me, even using my set-ups, it is possible for a Decker to make your smart-linked gun discharge while still in your holster while ejecting your clip and deciding to 'field strip' iteself. (Ok, maybe* not the last one, but then again I'm not so sure that it isn't possible.)*

Jaid View Member Profile	Mar 15 2007, 01:19 AM Post #4
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813	corporations, gangers, people on low budgets.

hyzmarca View Member Profile	Mar 15 2007, 01:22 AM Post #5
Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456	Also, once the appropriate supplements are released your laser sight can serve as a target designator for your rigger's cruise missiles.

Mistwalker View Member Profile	Mar 15 2007, 02:36 AM Post #6
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 668 Joined: 4-September 06 Member No.: 9,304	I have a player who's char refuses to use smartlinks. They don"t like the hackability, nor leaving any kind of electronic trail while working. In my world, Corp Security and Corps like Lone Star use lasers all the time. Intimidation, when the target suddenly sees a light show on his chest. PR, the public sees that the corp took the situation seriously, tried to dissuade the perp before they filled them with holes

Tomothy View Member Profile	Mar 15 2007, 03:34 AM Post #7
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 205 Joined: 7-January 07 From: Sydney, Australia Member No.: 10,558	People with Simsense Vertigo

TeOdio

Mar 15 2007, 04:06 AM

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QUOTE (Mistwalker)

Intimidation, when the target suddenly sees a light show on his chest.

Exactly. I would definitely give an intimidation test a few extra dice if the person being intimidated had a few red dots painting his or her chest.
:nuyen: :nuyen: :nuyen:

TheOOB View Member Profile	Mar 15 2007, 05:29 AM Post #9
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,290 Joined: 23-January 07 From: Seattle, USA Member No.: 10,749	Oftentimes I find I tun silent, deactivating the wireless functions of my gear to avoid being picked up by a stray hacker. When that happens the smartlink goes off and the laser sight goes on.

yoippari View Member Profile	Mar 15 2007, 05:43 AM Post #10
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 375 Joined: 15-November 06 From: Salem, Dwarven Hell (Tir Tairngier) Member No.: 9,865	Hackers can be ignored with a skinlinks. I'm not worried about that. Just have a PAN commlink with 0 signal and a skin link with a skin link on your goggles and gun gives you a self contained smartgun system. Red dots would have a way of letting someone know they can die soon. That and the sound of an action. Though I think I would rule that the action is just a part of the existing intimidate. Red dots are extra.

ShadowDragon8685 View Member Profile	Mar 15 2007, 08:34 AM Post #11
Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445	Laser sights are a holdover from SR3, where you could jack a Smartgunlink directly into you for a -2 TN, or use the goggles for the -1, and feck it, if you were going to only get a -1 anyway (you know, anyone who's a mage or an adept), you might as well get the cheaper laser sight. Plus, long-range laser sights eventually gave you a better chance on long-distance sniping tests than a smartgunlink.

Butterblume View Member Profile	Mar 15 2007, 09:05 AM Post #12
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,150 Joined: 19-December 05 From: Rhein-Ruhr Megaplex Member No.: 8,081	My char has both. Laser when he doesn't wear his goggles, with goggles he uses smartlink.

Thanee

Mar 15 2007, 09:17 AM

Post #13

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QUOTE (yoippari)

So, how many of you actually use laser sights on a regular basis and why?

I use them in addition to smartlink, because of the cool look. ;)

Smartlink would have to be cyberware-only, otherwise Lasersights are superfluous.

Bye
Thanee

TheOneRonin View Member Profile	Mar 15 2007, 01:31 PM Post #14
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,109 Joined: 16-October 03 From: Raleigh, NC Member No.: 5,729	Despite what's listed in books, you'd likely find far more red-dot sights than laser sights in the world of Shadowrun. Having used both IRL, the red-dots are tons better than the lasers. The batteries last longer, smoke/rain/mist don't make them useless, they work just fine on a bright summer day, they don't act like a visual beacon to your enemies, and they don't have the same range issues as laser sights. Mechanically, they would probably give the same bonus. Most of my characters, and those of my players, choose red-dots over laser signts every time. Read for yourself

HullBreach

Mar 15 2007, 02:15 PM

Post #15

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QUOTE (TheOneRonin)

Despite what's listed in books, you'd likely find far more red-dot sights than laser sights in the world of Shadowrun. Having used both IRL, the red-dots are tons better than the lasers. The batteries last longer, smoke/rain/mist don't make them useless, they work just fine on a bright summer day, they don't act like a visual beacon to your enemies, and they don't have the same range issues as laser sights.

Mechanically, they would probably give the same bonus. Most of my characters, and those of my players, choose red-dots over laser signts every time.

Read for yourself

*Grin*

http://heavyangel.com/?page_id=60

The stats are based on my own real-world experience with this sights.

TheOneRonin View Member Profile	Mar 15 2007, 02:56 PM Post #16
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,109 Joined: 16-October 03 From: Raleigh, NC Member No.: 5,729	Real nice, Hullbreach! I like the extra rules tidbit about the bonus dice from a take aim action. My only complaint about red dot sites has to do with pistols. Most become "unholsterable" with modern day red-dots. I would guess that the holster issue would be resolved by 2070s. The SR equivilents would probably use the same sort of holo-tech that the common trideo set uses. I would image a sort of free-floating holographic image that sits just above the weapon. The emitter would likely be pretty tiny, and could fit easily on a standard picatinny rail. BTW, have they ever gotten around to teaching marines how not to piss all over their hands when going to the latrine? (old Army joke) ;-)

TheOOB View Member Profile	Mar 16 2007, 02:52 AM Post #17
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,290 Joined: 23-January 07 From: Seattle, USA Member No.: 10,749	Keep in mind that laser sights are also a lot more legal. In an area with a heavy Lone Star presence it's a lot easier to talk your way out of having a pistol with a laser sight then a pistol with a smart link. One says your a goody-goody corper who carries a gun for protection and can't shot it well so you need a little help, the other says your a trained professional with the gear to kill.

Fix-it View Member Profile	Mar 16 2007, 03:19 AM Post #18
Creating a god with his own hands Group: Members Posts: 1,405 Joined: 30-September 02 From: 0:0:0:0:0:0:0:1 Member No.: 3,364	but with laser sights you can use it as a pointer for your power-point presentations.

TheOOB View Member Profile	Mar 16 2007, 04:00 AM Post #19
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,290 Joined: 23-January 07 From: Seattle, USA Member No.: 10,749	"I didn't mean to shot him, I was just pointing him out to my friends and the gun went off, honest!"

Spike View Member Profile	Mar 16 2007, 05:17 AM Post #20
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 941 Joined: 25-January 07 Member No.: 10,765	I continue to maintain that Red Eye sites are actually the techological forebearers of smartgun links, thus you won't find them anymore, while Laser dots are a seperate branch that hasn't really grown any more, but is still around. That's my take, and I'm sticking too it. :D

TheUrbanMonkey

Mar 16 2007, 09:57 AM

Post #21

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QUOTE (Spike)

I continue to maintain that Red Eye sites are actually the techological forebearers of smartgun links, thus you won't find them anymore, while Laser dots are a seperate branch that hasn't really grown any more, but is still around.

That's my take, and I'm sticking too it. :D

this. Red Dot sights are forerunners of smartlinks

TheOneRonin

Mar 16 2007, 01:12 PM

Post #22

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QUOTE (TheOOB)

Keep in mind that laser sights are also a lot more legal. In an area with a heavy Lone Star presence it's a lot easier to talk your way out of having a pistol with a laser sight then a pistol with a smart link.

One says your a goody-goody corper who carries a gun for protection and can't shot it well so you need a little help, the other says your a trained professional with the gear to kill.

...or an IPSC competitor, or a bodyguard, or a gadget junkie that has an unhealthy obsession with with adding an inordinate amount of bits to whatever firearm he is carrying at the time.

A smartlink is nothing more than an advanced optic/aming assist device. Why a cop would give you more crap about toting a smartweapon vs a laser sight equipped weapon is beyond me. In the rules book, externally mounted smartlink systems are 4R...the same legality as your Predator IV. If you are licensed to carry the weapon, you are probably licensed to carry the smartlink. There is nothing in fluff or crunch in the SR4 book that indicates that Smartlinks are military/LE/professional criminal only.

Hell, if SR follows the real world, Smartlinks would be all the rage amongst any hobbiest shooter with money, especially if he/she isn't a particularly good shot to begin with. Especially since, in SR4, things like "Smartshades" (legality 4R) are available, making cyberware completely unnecessary. In my experience, it's the amatures that try to cram as many accessories on their weapon as possible. The Professionals will kill you just as dead, just as fast with iron sights.

TheOneRonin

Mar 16 2007, 01:21 PM

Post #23

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QUOTE (Spike)

I continue to maintain that Red Eye sites are actually the techological forebearers of smartgun links, thus you won't find them anymore, while Laser dots are a seperate branch that hasn't really grown any more, but is still around.

I could see the red dot sight as the predecessor of the Smartlink, in the same way that the laser sight is the predecessor of the Red Dot sight.

However, I think the Red Dots would still be around for three reasons.

#1 They would be as legal as laser sights, so no license needed to own one.
#2 They don't require any additional accessories like smartshades/goggles.
#3 They would be much cheaper than smartlinks.

Oh, and one more:

#4 Laser sights suck. Forget what you've seen in movies and on TV. They are crap.

imperialus View Member Profile	Mar 16 2007, 04:55 PM Post #24
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,532 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Calgary, Canada Member No.: 769	my mage uses a laser, my logic being he only has a pistols skill of two and probably never took the time to figure out the ins and outs of how to properly use a smartlink.

Spike View Member Profile	Mar 16 2007, 06:22 PM Post #25
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 941 Joined: 25-January 07 Member No.: 10,765	TheOneRonin: The trouble with the Red Dot or Aimpoint sights is that they are going to be big and awkward, especially on low profile weapons like pistols and SMGs that most shadowrunners should be using. (sorry Hull, I agree that rifles are the proper weapon for the battlefield, but for a Shadowrun?). The only way to overcome this is to feed the 'red dot' to a goggle or through cyberwear... ... at which point you have just recreated the smartlink without the bells and whistles (dropping mags, changing rates of fire, etc). With a 'projection laser' there is no need to send feedback to the user's eye, the projected dot does it automatically.

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