A Cap for Edge? Options

[Grinder]

During SR1-3 a character could boost his dicepool of 2 times it's size, with karmapool or combat pool. If a char used the firearms skill and could throw 6 dices, he could buy up to another 6, but not more.

Edge isn't restricted in that way: A character with Charisma 1 and Edge 7 could spend all 7 Edge dices for a charisma-based test.

So in our group the discussion arose if we should cap Edge the way karmapool and other pools were capped in previous editions.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

[The Entropic Wiz...]

I think that's how it's supposed to be. I mean, on the Charisma test, he's only rolling 8 dice. At that level, any face character should be rolling almost twice that, so he's still got the edge over Mr. I-Use-Edge-For-Things-I-Needn't-Do. :D

[Grinder]

[ornot]

I don't see anything broken in the Edge rules. Sure you can boost your social dice pool by 7 in your example, but you are paying for that Edge with BPs or karma, much as you might on Charisma. The only way Edge might threaten game balance is through GM mismanagement of Edge refreshing.

[MaxHunter]

yep. One point a day + sometimes one more for really spectacular heroics works quite well for us...

Cheers,

Max

[toturi]

[Garrowolf]

The doubling of the dice pool from combat pool was maxed at double in SR3. I think that is what he is talking about.

[Grinder]

[Demerzel]

[StealthBanana]

Demerzel:

One refresh every 24 hours means that the entire pool refreshes, not just one point. At least I think that's what toturi is talking about.

Personally, I think Edge has it's own balancing factors. It doesn't matter if you have a high Edge or a low Edge, it has the same refresh rate. Why would having lots of Edge lead to an increased number of refreshes? The good part about having a high Edge is that you have many edge points to spend and can spend more in between refresh periods than the person with a low Edge score.

[Demerzel]

Yes, SB, that is the way it is supposed to be. MaxHunter said they refresh a single point per day, not the whole pool. Take note of the quote. That is what I was commenting on.

[Ravor]

Well considering that one POINT per day / 'Oh Cool' moments is the same refresh rate that I use I'd have to disagree, the value of having a high Edge lays in the fact that you have that many more points on hand to throw if the drek hits the fan, not that 'Mr Lucky' can throw Edge almost without thinking, safe in the knowledge that it'll all refresh and be ready to call on again the very next day.

[fistandantilus4....]

Grinder: Are you having problems with excessive edge use? Just curious where this is coming from. Because if not, don't fox what ain't broken. if you are, try just stating at the beginning of the next session that edge is going to refresh less often. Depending on how difficult I want the run to be, it either refreshes at the next session, or at the start of the next run, which can be multiple sessions.

Sometimes I refresh it after the PC has gotten some good down time rest. 8+ hours uninterrupted sleep. But that's usually only if it's a really nasty game, to help give them a balancer, or if I want to give them a little more to work with for some more pzazz for the PCs.

[Demerzel]

So you use this as a house rule because you feel edge is overpowered. I take it then that you don't discount edge at character creation or Karma costs?

[Ravor]

Well personally the only time that I find Edge 'overpowered' is when people start popping points like candy, in which case I view it akin to a mage Overcasting, a fine and perfectly valid tactic paid for by character resources but not one that I'd encourage to be used all of the time. But to answer your question, no I don't discount Edge because I feel that even at a slower Refresh rate the fact that 'Mr Lucky' has more points to throw when he needs to balances out just fine. After all a vastly slowed Edge Refresh rate is one of the suggested 'offical' Rules Tweaks in order to achieve a gritter campaign, and I don't see it suggested there that I discount Edge.

As for the idea that my Edge Refresh being a House Rule, sure I supose that it is, but remember that there aren't really any hard-and-fast Edge Refresh rules, just suggestions and in fact the idea of Refreshing Edge one point at a time is also presented as a possiblity in RAW, albeit tied to achieving Run Goals instead of a time-table...

[Grinder]

[Demerzel]

Does the optional rule for slowing edge refreshment suggest going all the way to a flat rate of refresh? I was under the impression that the decelerated edge refreshment was still full edge refreshment, only over an extended time frame.

You see even if you only refresh edge over multiple sessions, rather than each session, or even multiple times each session someone who has 8 edge will receive 4 times the edge to spend than someone with only 2 edge. When you give x edge per y time regardless of edge attribute then you’re taking away a chunk the advantage of high edge.

Does anyone in your game take a high edge attribute or do they all take it as a dump stat?

@Grinder:
As a GM I generally only refresh edge at the completion of a full job. Under the basic rules Edge 6 and 7 can be a huge advantage, and perhaps should be. Consider Agility 3 vs Agility 7. How many dice total is 4 dice every time you pull the trigger? Many. Now agility is less versatile than edge, it only applies to half the skills in the book (I know that's an over exageration), instead of potentially to all of them. But it never runs out.

Like most of Shadowrun the trick is finding the balance for your group.

[ShadowDragon]

I like to refresh 1 point after a combat (where the PCs are in danger but survive), and everything only between missions. Occasionally I'll also reward a point of edge refresh when the players do something well.

The one PC with 7 edge always has a huge advantage over the PCs with small edge pools with these rules, based on my playtesting. But I don't find this unbalancing because the players knew what they were getting into when they built their characters with a low or high edge.

[fistandantilus4....]

[Grinder]

The two complain with the "but we spend BPs for it" the whole last session. Sissies. :D

I think the main problem was that we had Edge refreshed too often. We'll use another system next time, probably one point Edge per day with additional ones for critical glitches and the like (as suggested in the BBB).

[fistandantilus4....]

Just tell them to stop being sissies. :D

When I found that I was dishing out to much edge, and decided to change it, I pitched it as:
"I'm changing the refresh edge rate. I want to make it a bit rougher, you know just a little more grit. Make it a little more close to death and make you think about things a bit more."

That way they weren't thinking "damn, there goes my edge", they were thinking something more like "Cool, we're not playing on Medium anymore. He thinks we're good enough to play it on Hard. We're bad asses"

Worked pretty well.

[Grinder]

I'm a player in that game, so I'm sure to complain. :D

We talked about it and decided to go for a grittier gaming style indeed, in contrast to the cineastic style we had the last sessions when we were able to blow out so much Edge.

[fistandantilus4....]

[Demerzel]