 Unexplained Genetic Expression, Or Meta-humanity |
  |
 Apr 4 2007, 04:00 AM
Post
#1
|
|
|
Project Terminus: Soul Hunters  Group: Members Posts: 1,052 Joined: 6-November 03 From: Casselberry, Florida U.S.A. Member No.: 5,798  |
Just sitting here and got bored and I had one of those annoying thoughts hit me.
Metas can be born human then later change. I was woundering what if 2 people before they goblinized had a kid then when they goblinized one turned into an elf and one turned into a troll would the kid if s/he were to goblinize later be a half breed? Yes I am looking for peoples thoughts on a half elf half troll but something along the lines of blade all the good stuff and more ofless none of the bad. |
 |
 
|
|
Apr 4 2007, 04:10 AM
Post
#2
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 144 Joined: 30-April 03 Member No.: 4,529 |
RAW is very clear that there are no such thing as half-breeds.
Also, humans that goblinize in 2070 are probably about as rare as albinos. Almost all orks and trolls are born that way, and humans never goblinize into Elves. All elves (and dwarves) were born as elves or dwarves. Finally, and most importantly, the GM can make any house rule desired. |
|
|
|
|
Apr 4 2007, 04:12 AM
Post
#3
|
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 85 Joined: 28-August 03 Member No.: 5,551 |
Folks can never goblinize into elves or dwarfs. You're either born that way or you're not. And it's extraordinarily rare for a baby of one race to be born to parents of another in the 70's.
Goblinization into other races (or for that matter, "throwback" babies being born to orcs or trolls) is similarly rare, although some old metaplot made them temporarily more common a few years back. Regardless, it's been said repeatedly that "biracial" children overwhelmingly tend towards one of their parents races, with a vanishingly small number expressing as one of the other races. Presumably they'd have a chance of their offspring expressing the other parent's metatype, and you could certainly arrange their stats to imply a hint of their other half, but for all intents and purposes - and this includes game rules - they're just one or the other. No vast collection of silly in-betweens. |
|
|
|
|
Apr 4 2007, 04:25 AM
Post
#4
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 811 Joined: 30-January 07 From: Portland, OR Member No.: 10,845 |
Dude, Im loving your thinking, an elf with troll body and quick reflexes. Nice.... 8) Seriously though, Ive never really liked the explaination of the metagene, since it relates to mana levels and a whole bunch of other bullshit (read SOTA: 2063). Also, if magic is what enables the UGE, then why the hell do immortal elves stay immortal even when human, and how can dragons survive physically when mana disappears? Afterall they are virtually magical vessels like spirits. Anyways, just bribe your GM, or better yet, bethe GM. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 4 2007, 04:31 AM
Post
#5
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 811 Joined: 30-January 07 From: Portland, OR Member No.: 10,845 |
Oh yeah, and another thing:
You are forgetting the "Spikers", the elves and maybe some dwarves thrown in there (can only think of Dodger off hand) that became elves and dwarves as soon as the ambient mana got to a certain point. Not exactly like Goblinization, but kinda. As to now though, I agree with you that 99.99% of elves or dwarves only express before birth (got to thow that .01% in for the obvious fluff license FP/WK always allows itself. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 4 2007, 04:40 AM
Post
#6
|
|
|
Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
Although not canon, in my campaigns I've always had the IEs resort to Blood Magic and Places of Power in order to survive throughout the Downcycle...
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 4 2007, 04:49 AM
Post
#7
|
|||||
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,206 Joined: 9-July 06 From: Fresno, CA Member No.: 8,856 |
I was under the impression that the spike babies were babies born in spots where the mana had spiked eairly in the cycle. The Dodger was born an Elf. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Apr 4 2007, 08:09 AM
Post
#8
|
|
|
Project Terminus: Soul Hunters Group: Members Posts: 1,052 Joined: 6-November 03 From: Casselberry, Florida U.S.A. Member No.: 5,798 |
While the rules may say it is near impossible the thing to remember is this:
Shadowrun is a world of magic and thus things can happen that just don't seem likey or even possible. Like I said this was just a thought for the simple theory of say a person being born of 2 humans that later became an elf and a troll. Later in life the child grew up expressed as an elf but with the +5 body +5 strength that trolls get and the +2 agility +3 charisma of an elf. This was as useall just one of my questions to be looked at in fun and the thought of a big bad good looking I'll beat your ass elf just sounded like so much fun to me. :spin: :wobble: :twirl: |
|
|
|
|
Apr 4 2007, 08:39 AM
Post
#9
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 144 Joined: 30-April 03 Member No.: 4,529 |
Correct. Which is why it is perfectly acceptable as a house rule. I would recommend throwing the idea into an "epic" level campaign with an astrally projecting mystic adept, a player-controlled free spirit, and Harlequin's son. The enemy could be a brilliant shaman/technomancer who has invented a ranged weapon usable in astral space. This is starting to sound like a B level sci-fi movie developed by Amalgamated Studios. That would be an interesting (dual) campaign. The PCs could be method actors starring in a film. You could alternate sessions of real life (in which the characters would attempt to become their characters by going on real runs) with movie scenes (in which they would become unstoppable half elf-trolls). Also, the idea of a monstrous, green, pointy-eared vegetarian is kind of amusing. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 4 2007, 08:56 AM
Post
#10
|
|
|
Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
Spike babies are and always were elves. They were born before the general awakening thanks to Spikes in the mana level that allowed it to happen. Hence "Spike" babies.
And there are still humans born to troll families that do express late/puberty. Weird. |
|
|
|
|
Apr 4 2007, 01:57 PM
Post
#11
|
|||
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,333 Joined: 19-August 06 From: Austin Member No.: 9,168 |
The way to reflect this is to build the elf by buying high bod and str. I know you're pretty much kidding, but "no only no, but hell no." As a character concept, it's just fine. Play the elf bruiser, and place the reasons on your troll/elf parentage. That's interesting. As a rules concept, NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO. Especially given that one of the elf's bonuses is directly counter to one of the troll's weaknesses. Trying to say "Oh, he's half elf. So not only does he not have a lower agi max, he has a bonus!" is just wrong. Maybe if you spent 200 bp on the metatype. Maybe. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 4 2007, 02:16 PM
Post
#12
|
|
|
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,665 Joined: 26-April 03 From: Sweden Member No.: 4,516 |
Trollelf:
Version 1: Troll, Exceptional Charisma. B 7, A 5, R 3, S 7, C 4, I 3, L 2, W 3. Thermographic Vision, Reach +1, Dermal Armor 1. If you want, design a special Quality (-5 points) that removes one natural ability (dermal armor, for instance). Version 2: Elf, Exceptional Strength, Toughness. B 5, A 5, R 3, S 6, C 3, I 3, L 3, W 3. Lowlight Vision. Version 3: Pick a race with stats in-between the two(B 3/8, A 1/6, R 1/6, S 3/8, C 2/6, I 1/6, L 1/5, W 1/6.) - an Ork! Give him Exceptional Charisma and Human Looking: (B 4/9, A 1/6, R 1/6, S 3/8, C 1/6, I 1/6, L 1/5, W 1/6) Call him an Elftroll and make people laugh a lot when he says he isn't an ork, but half-elf and half-troll. In the old germany sourcebook there was reference to genetic freaks like elves with troll arms, trolls with dwarfbeards and such, but there's never been any stats or anything more written about that afaik. |
|
|
|
|
Apr 4 2007, 02:22 PM
Post
#13
|
|||
|
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,665 Joined: 26-April 03 From: Sweden Member No.: 4,516 |
Actually, there's been reference to a dwarf spike baby (though I forget where - AH may know). |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 4 2007, 02:25 PM
Post
#14
|
|
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,333 Joined: 19-August 06 From: Austin Member No.: 9,168 |
Version 3 is awesome. I may well play that character now. :)
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 4 2007, 02:40 PM
Post
#15
|
|||||
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,206 Joined: 9-July 06 From: Fresno, CA Member No.: 8,856 |
I think when he says are and always were elves means that they did not become elves. I don't think he meant to exclude dwarves. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Apr 4 2007, 03:20 PM
Post
#16
|
|
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
A Spike Baby is any Awakened critter or metahuman that was born before the Awakening. Case in point: century ferrets. Elves are the best-known case, but there have also been (somewhat apocryphally) orks, and at least one troll. Not sure about dwarfs. There's always that one guy from the Secrets of Power Trilogy.
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 4 2007, 03:21 PM
Post
#17
|
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 34 Joined: 2-April 07 Member No.: 11,358 |
This makes me wonder a few things.
1. Those people who gave birth to dwarves or elves- what percentage of them ended up changing to dwarves or elves later on? How about further up the family tree? Might you discover that grandpa suddenly turned out to be an elf, explaining your own pointy ears and vegetarian tendencies? 2. Is this spike change still existant? I.e. if you were to find an area of the world that had a lower than normal level of mana, would people revert? Maybe mystic creatures would find themselves feeling groggy, going into a hibernation mode/wanting to go off to the astral plane? 3. Given that UGE does still exist, what about elves and dwarves being born to humans? What about this happening to non-human parentage? For instance, you have two Trolls, they have a kid, kid ends up being an elf. Can this be explained as 'rare, but happens,' or does the mother have a heck of a lot of explaining to do? |
|
|
|
|
Apr 4 2007, 03:46 PM
Post
#18
|
|||||||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 829 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 770 |
0% Noone goblinizes into an elf or dwarf, ever.
Spikes can still exist: see SURGE from the comet. But noone reverts, ever. edit: some paracritters might have issues though - dragons hibernate through the low-mana periods (like the 5th world), a shifter might not be able to change from its natural animal form, etc.
Elves and dwarves can still be born to humans, but it's getting more and more rare as the mana level rises - there are fewer people around carrying the metatype that haven't already expressed. Elves can't be born to trolls however - IIRC, even if one parent is a troll and the other is an elf, the child would either be a troll, or a human VERY likely to goblinize into a troll at puberty. |
||||||
|
|
|
||||||
|
Apr 4 2007, 03:49 PM
Post
#19
|
|||||||||
|
Shooting Target Group: Retired Admins Posts: 1,784 Joined: 28-July 04 From: Cleveland, OH Member No.: 6,522 |
0% Humans can goblinize into Trolls and Orks. No one ever turns into a Dwarf or an Elf. (Unless you want to count folks who went in for extensive cosmetic surgery.)
There's never been any evidence for this in canon. However, it could make for an interesting house rule.
This absolutely still happens.
Yes. |
||||||||
|
|
|
||||||||
|
Apr 4 2007, 04:22 PM
Post
#20
|
|||
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 34 Joined: 2-April 07 Member No.: 11,358 |
I'm not talking about goblinization, I'm thinking more in terms of spikes and way back when the Awakening began. From what I understand of the above, there were people who spontaneously changed when mana hit a certain level, but the majority of the changes came at birth (regarding elves and dwarves). My theory is that, if in fact all of this is genetic and linked to magic, then there's a decent chance that elves and dwarves have been effectively 'latent' since the last magic age. People have been born as elves and dwarves for centuries, effectively, but they've been human due to the lack of mana. So, in theory, if you were born as an elf or dwarf, then further back in your family tree you have 'elves' and 'dwarves.' Thusly, if it is possible for someone to shift in the presence of enough mana (the spike babies, if I understand it) then in theory at least anyone who was born a dwarf or an elf should have people in their family who, if in the right place or time, would have been spike babies. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 4 2007, 04:27 PM
Post
#21
|
|
|
Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
Well its my understanding that even the Spike Babies were born as elves or dwarves, although I could be wrong, but sure, I'd agree with the point that there are genetic lines that could lead to a baby being born as an elf, ect at a lower Mana level then another genetic line, but where I disagree is with the idea that after being born human, 'Grandpa' would then express into an elf.
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 4 2007, 05:03 PM
Post
#22
|
|||||||
|
Shooting Target Group: Retired Admins Posts: 1,784 Joined: 28-July 04 From: Cleveland, OH Member No.: 6,522 |
Your understanding is incorrect. No one turned into a dwarf or an elf. Spike Babies were so named because they were born as dwarves and elves.
That's pretty much the standard way that metagenetics are presented.
Again, this is incorrect. "Spike Babies" didn't shift metatypes. They were born as a new metatype. |
||||||
|
|
|
||||||
|
Apr 4 2007, 06:11 PM
Post
#23
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 941 Joined: 25-January 07 Member No.: 10,765 |
I am not sure if I feel incredibly stupid or I just think a lot of you guys are being overly strict in reading. I always got the impression that there were two waves of change, one for the elves and dwarves, one for the orks and trogs. But I NEVER had the impression that no one ever turned into an elf post birth. I always saw that 'expressing' as an elf or dwarf in the teens or beyond was actually common for a breif time.
Where did this 'never, not ever, not even in your dreams bucko' line come from? And why, exactly, should it be true? What makes the members of those two metatypes so special that they can only be born that way? Certainly the 'growth' into a Troll is at least as extreme a physical change as shrinking into Dwarf size, and someone expressing suddenly as an Elf might not even notice right away... |
|
|
|
|
Apr 4 2007, 06:17 PM
Post
#24
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 829 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 770 |
I don't have the old books handy, but it was in the history part - I'll check the SR4 book to see if it mentions it. But UGE is specifically elves and dwarves being born to human parents, while goblinization is specifically orks and trolls metamorphizing at puberty. edit:
|
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 4 2007, 06:23 PM
Post
#25
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 941 Joined: 25-January 07 Member No.: 10,765 |
The problem there is you are reading a negative into a neutral comment. Babies are born as Elves or dwarves =\= no one ever changes into an elf or dwarf. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 18th June 2025 - 04:28 PM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.