Regrets, Was fourth edition a good business move? Options

[Magusinvictus]

Hi

This is not intended as a disparaging question, so please don’t anyone take it the wrong way…

To my mind, the production rate of fourth edition books seems to be quite slow, certainly when compared to the third edition. I was wondering, does anybody know if Fanpro are in trouble; does anybody feel that maybe they are now regretting the decision to make the move to a new edition, rather than sticking to, and further developing/supporting, the third?

Anyway, no offence intended. Thanks for your comments!!!

[Dread Polack]

I'm not quite an insider, though I used to work for a major game company, and my opinion is:

Really, the whole RPG business is in a terrible slump, and even though SR4 is chugging along pretty slowly, it's probably still making money and doing better than a lot of other games. The only RPGs that seem to be putting stuff out faster are D&D and the HERO system (although I'm sure there are more I'm not following). Given the difficulties of the industry, it seems to still be afloat. I had a lot more frustration with the Lord of the Rings RPG a couple years ago, where the company was being a lot less honest about what was going on.

I'm still hopeful, but in this business, it could choke at any slight bump in the market.

Dread Polack

[Glayvin34]

I recently went looking on Yahoo! Groups for an SR4 game, and found only SR3 games. So now I'm thinking that SR4 as a complete game is still in a "pre-release" status. A few of the books are available, but not enough to play. If you like Shadowrun, play SR3 for now.

[the_dunner]

While new books may be slower to release than many diehards would like, the core rules has sold through 3 complete print runs in 18 months, with a fourth on its way to retailers. In the current marketplace, there's nothing from a comparably sized game company with that kind of sell-through.

In terms of actual sales, the majority of any game lines profit are in core book sales, not supplement sales. (Only a percentage of players buy supplements. The majority of players buy the core rules.)

So, looking at things just from a financial perspective, fourth edition was a brilliant move.

[2bit]

SR4 got a snazzy award at the con too, iirc. . . so beaucoup kudos.

[Wraithshadow]

I'd say that Fanpro's got a few concerns out there- first is the market as a whole. There's not exactly a boom, as Dread Polack mentions. Further, you've got the debate about 3 vs 4- is the new system as good as the old system? People tend to favor what they know over what's unknown. In a sense, the different editions of Shadowrun are competing with one another.

Now, with all that said, I think Fanpro's probably doing the smart thing in keeping print runs small while having pdfs open for purchase. If they're on a tight budget, it makes sense to make what you think you can sell, keep your money doing things rather than sitting in a warehouse. I think the lack of books on shelves might discourage people from picking up the game, but not as much as it might back when the shelf was the only marketplace. Now you can get online, track down a copy, and have it at your door in 2-3 days, or download the file and be reading it in minutes.

Also, there's the upside of controversy- not only in difference of editions, but in the FPS game. How many Shadowrun fans are going to play it because it is Shadowrun, and then go off on how it's not right- that Shadowrun's so much better? How many people are they going to want to show this fact off to?

Me, personally, I peeked in on a discussion of the FPS elseforum, and it had gotten into 3 vs 4. The discussion about 4 was enough that I went looking. I had seen Shadowrun back in 1st edition and had a copy of 2nd sitting around, never used. Between the discussion and a friend's request for opinions on what game to run next, I started thinking about Shadowrun more. I also got thinking about what I'd heard about 4, the fact it addressed the changes in technology that have taken place since the game was first invented. And after prodding the 'Net for a while, I finally picked up a copy. Here I am.

Controversy got me in the door, innovation made me stick around. Not too bad, ne?

[ThreeGee]

[coolgrafix]

[snowRaven]

IMO, SR4 is the most complete shadowrun core book yet!

Considering the state of the business, I'd say SR4 is doing quite well, and I find the rules better in most points than any of the previous editions (I've played SR since it came out).

The only thing I've found it necessary to tweak is the skill hard caps - I simply raised them from 6(7) to 9(10) and it runs beautifully.

The only thing SR4 'lacks' is worldhistory between 2065-2070, and further rules and backstory on technomancers - the vehicle and drone department could be slightly more fleshed out too - but are any of these necessary for play? Not really.

[Thanee]

Yeah, the SR4 book has *everything* you need to play. More is always nice, but it's surely not necessary to play. ;)

Bye
Thanee

[Backgammon]

Judging by the influx of posters that came into the forums with 4th edition and the rapid pace of reprints, I think SR4 was a damn good move. But I may be wrong. Maybe Adam (assuming he has seen figures) will come by and enlighten us.

[DireRadiant]

Company still in business? Good move.

Company out of Business? Bad move.

Easy to figure out the answer.

[mfb]

well, in between, there's "company going out of business", "company not making as much as it could be", etcetera. i'm not saying FanPro's doing poorly, but "good move" is not pass/fail.

[Glayvin34]

[stevebugge]

Having played through all 4 editions now, I would say that on the whole 4th is doing quite well, including release rate. I remember waiting ages for new books to come out in Second Edition. The 4th edition core book is probably the best stand alone core rule book since First Edition, only with significantly less wacky dice systems. The line seems to be selling well. It is a significantly different game than 3rd edition, and right now seems less complete, but lacking around a decade of supplemental material can make it seem that way. The supplements that have released so far do seem to be a bit more solid than the ones put out for previous editions.

Then again the real test is: Do Adam's paychecks clear or bounce? :grinbig:

[Blade]

From what I gathered, in France, the 4th edition was a really good move : a lot of 3rd edition players bought it and a lot of 1st or 2nd edition players who dropped the game a few years ago, or players who were interested by Shadowrun but never gave it a shot because of the "complex rules" went for the 4th edition too.

[ThreeGee]

[lorechaser]

[eidolon]

[Thanee]

My older SR books are all in good condition as well. :)

But I still prefer hardcovers. ;)

Bye
Thanee

[KarmaInferno]

[Synner]

[Luddite]

Honestly, I love the mechanics of 4th edition and the fact that FanPro included far more information in the Core book than usual. On the other hand, they may have shot themselves in the foot supplement-wise. In previous editions you needed pretty much all of the major supplements to play a character of the affected type, in 4th, not so much. This may equal smaller supplement sales, who knows.

Where I really think FanPro really dropped the ball is the plotline. Five years in the Sixth World is like two lifetimes, and I think that FanPro would have been better off using the huge horkin events that took place between the end of the SR3 "era" and the beginning of the SR4 one as grist for adventure and campaign supplements, rather than background. Just my :nuyen: 2

[knasser]

I think it's hard to dispute the 4th edition being a good move. It's a big improvement on 3rd edition and both the core book and the two main supplements so far are extremely high quality.

But the question that matters is what's going to happen next?

[ThreeGee]