 Broken Equipment, ...and stuff! |
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 Nov 5 2003, 06:44 AM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 608 Joined: 9-July 02 From: California Member No.: 2,955  |
Pawing through the books, a number of interesting figures struck me. Most notable was the availability on the Great Dragon anti-tank guided missile. Eight. Wow.
Some others struck me as odd. In Man and Machine, I can get a Cybernetic Squirtgun for avail eight. In non-cyber form, it's suddenly just out of my reach. The same goes for what is nothing more than a paintball gun, the ELD-AR. Any other messed pieces of gear? |
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Nov 5 2003, 11:02 AM
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#2
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Senior GM Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,406 Joined: 12-April 03 From: Redmond, WA Member No.: 4,442 |
A medium machine gun is unavailable to starting characters (availability 14 or 18) unless you get it on a drone (L. S. Strato-9, availability 8 ) and carry it around under your arm.
The monofilament whip (availability 24) and Macauitl (availability 18) are both unavailable to starting characters, unless you get them as a weapon focus (availability 8 ). Bullets fired from a Heavy Pistol go out 60 meters (Extreme range), but a strength 4 character can hit someone by throwing the pistol out to 80 meters (Grenade Range table, SR3 p. 119). |
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Nov 5 2003, 11:35 AM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 637 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,528 |
Actually, the same holds true in theorie for a good number of IRL pistols. Small caliber weapons often have "official" ranges less than 20 meters. Michael |
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Nov 5 2003, 11:48 AM
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#4
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032 |
I like the one about the pistol, but i thought the rules concerning vehicles were that they came disarmed?
Anyway: I've never had a problem with players owning Grand Dragon ATGMs... They hardly ever use them and when they do something always goes horribly wrong. They tried to use one against a heavy door in a sewer. The security door (BR 8*2=16) took some damage. So did the surrounding sewer walls (BR 6). :) |
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Nov 5 2003, 02:21 PM
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#5
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916 |
For those of us not regularly acquainted with the metric system, 20 meters doesn't sound like a lot. However, it's really like 60 feet (which is the same distance, but the larger number makes it easier to visualize for us backward Americans). -Siege |
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Nov 5 2003, 05:04 PM
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#6
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Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,944 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
And what GM would allow this? The availability of the enchanted item has to be considered as well as its seperate cost. Otherwise, what is to keep the rigger from buying a force 1 anchoring focus in the form of a GMC Banshee for 3000 nuyen?
LOL.:) |
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Nov 5 2003, 05:26 PM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 102 Joined: 26-February 02 From: harrisburg metroplex, pa Member No.: 623 |
well aside from cost and availiblity rules, i have to say after looking through arsenal 2060 (german cannon companion) the H&K urban enforcer is the most broken firearm ever.
H&K urban enforcer Concealability: 5/-(not detectable by MAD) Ammunition: 36© Mode: SA/BF/FA Damage: 7M Weight: 4 Availability: 14/16Days Cost: 6200 Street Index: 2 Accessories: RC(3), Sound Suppressor, int. Smartlink II, grenade launcher 6(m) seriously, why should i carry anything else? |
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Nov 5 2003, 06:01 PM
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#8
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Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,944 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
Because 12,400 is a lot to throw in the bay when you get done using it? |
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Nov 5 2003, 07:01 PM
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#9
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916 |
Not to mention if you manage to find one at a TN of 14, you'd have to pry that thing out of my cold, dead fingers.
-Siege |
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Nov 5 2003, 07:05 PM
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#10
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Senior GM Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,406 Joined: 12-April 03 From: Redmond, WA Member No.: 4,442 |
Time for me to learn German and buy another book.
-- USA Munchkin |
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Nov 5 2003, 07:15 PM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 430 Joined: 28-May 02 Member No.: 2,784 |
Wow, you'd learn German just to get a better gun? That's awesome! They should use that tactic in the high schools to motivate kids. :)
--K |
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Nov 5 2003, 07:46 PM
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#12
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 102 Joined: 26-February 02 From: harrisburg metroplex, pa Member No.: 623 |
did i not say aside from cost and availibility?
you can get the original h&k combat smg for 2200 :nuyen: si2 and avail 10. no smartlink or gernade launcher. otherwise same stats. |
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Nov 5 2003, 09:54 PM
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#13
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
nice try, but no. Several times there has a been provided a quote from the R3 that vehicles and drones come without weapons, but with the mounts ready to accept them. For the listed price, no drone comes with weapon systems intact. The weapons listed in the description are the typical weapons placed in those mounts. Strange but true.
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| Guest_Artemis_* |
Nov 5 2003, 11:39 PM
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#14
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Guests |
It would be well and nice, but according to the rules regarding Foci (SR3 p. 189-190):
Although they don't say specifically, I would venture a guess that you would have to facotr in availability. And if one is trying to buy it in-game, they'd have to factor in street index as well. It would be nice to sneak something like that past the rules though -chuckle- |
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Nov 6 2003, 05:04 PM
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#15
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Target Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 16-June 03 From: Kentucky Member No.: 4,746 |
Anyone know exactly where in R3 this is stated? I'd like to point it out to one of my players. |
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Nov 6 2003, 05:27 PM
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#16
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
I do most of my postings at work, so I don't have a book handy, but it has been posted here several times, and I looked it up and it was true... hopefully someone else can provide the page no...
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Nov 6 2003, 06:02 PM
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#17
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
I had thought that it had been determined that vehicles did in fact come with what they said they had... ah well, I'll reserve judgement until I see your quote.
~J |
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Nov 6 2003, 06:11 PM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 108 Joined: 15-September 03 From: Worcester, MA Member No.: 5,621 |
Well, I hate to say it, but I can't find the "vehicles don't come with weapons" rule anywhere in R3, or SR3. However, there are only 3 "vehicles" listed that have weapons listed in their "other features" section:
MCT Hachiman - Proprietary partial-anthroform security drone Lone Star Strato-9 - Lone Star "surveillence" drone MF Akahito-class Supercarrier Both the drones list a single MMG, while the carrier lists 4 ANDREWS systems. I'm going to ignore the carrier for the rest of this post, purely out of principle. As for the drones, the Hachiman has an availability listing of "NA", aka, "GM, this is not for sale!". This is due to it's status as a cutting edge, robot-security product, designed for purely in-house work. Hence, it's inclusion of a weapon is not an issue. As a GM, I would first waive the "2/48 hours" availability of the Strato-9. That is a specific model that would be well protected (and not sold) by it's maker. Feel free to market a comparable model, but it definately would not carry the Lone Star trademark. I'd classify the Strato-9 as a "non-commercial vehicle" (see pg 157, R3). That means either steal one, or bye a "commercial version" (i.e., stripped of weapons) at the listed prices. Remember, if something doesn't make sense, it's your game. Nuke it 'till it works. If they persist, take Blackjack's advice: Drop a cow on them, preferably from orbit. |
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Nov 6 2003, 10:13 PM
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#19
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032 |
Actually. I must admit that I can't find anything saying that vehicles come stripped. I must have just been told sometime and it stuck with me.
Anyhow, I think the price and is reasonable for a disarmed model so I'd let someone buy one of those, just without the MMG. |
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Nov 6 2003, 10:32 PM
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#20
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
It's been claimed on Dumpshock before; probably where you got the impression.
~J |
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Nov 6 2003, 10:41 PM
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#21
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
That may very well be true.
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Nov 6 2003, 11:00 PM
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#22
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 |
It should be obvious to anyone reading the rules both in SR3 and R3 that the Vehicles and Drones therein come "out of the box" with only the listed Features (especially when both books include rules for adding hardpoints/firmpoints if you want to add weapons).
Vehicles that include weapons systems and other extras have them listed in the Features, otherwise its pretty evident that you have to pay for further weapons, mounts and ammo. |
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Nov 6 2003, 11:07 PM
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#23
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Target Group: Members Posts: 85 Joined: 30-October 03 Member No.: 5,769 |
I don't quite understand the attempts to rationalize why they don't come with their listed features, either. It's like saying that simply because you don't like the fact that a Pocket Secretary includes 100 Mp of memory (since that, alone, makes the Pocket Secretary infinitely cheaper than a 100 Mp Pocket Computer if my own memory serves), it doesn't come with that even though it's clearly listed as one of it's features.
In other words, yes, the Strato-9 does come with the listed weapon. Silly as the sum of it is. |
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Nov 6 2003, 11:10 PM
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#24
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 139 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Cleveland-Akron Sprawl Member No.: 1,200 |
Most entries for drones/vehicles specifically state "(weapon not included)". It's likely that those entries without the "(weapon not included)" tag slipped by an editor somewhere along the line...
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Nov 7 2003, 04:21 AM
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#25
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Target Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 16-June 03 From: Kentucky Member No.: 4,746 |
I like this suggestion, as I definitely have trouble swallowing the fact that something which basically amounts to an MMG attached to a propeller is within the availability limit for a starting character, yet the weapon itself isn't. |
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