Improved Invisibility, invisibility, How do they work? Options

[knasser]

[Garrowolf]

With a will of 1 you could probably convince him to change sides with a candy bar and nice smile!

[FriendoftheDork]

[knasser]

[FriendoftheDork]

[Ravor]

Ok first off, I read your war-story, and it sounds pretty good, however I disagree with the idea of coddling the party at all, sure they are of a lower power level then normal, but you've already done your job by placing them in a lower powered campaign setting, never forget that life in the barrens is hard, dirty, and above all, short.

*Edit*

Plus, remember that min-maxing in a lower power setting kind-of destroys the entire point of even bothering with lowering the power setting. If anything, I'd be slightly offended if one of my players agreed to play with a lower power level and then preceeded to try to min-max their way to outragous strength.

[FriendoftheDork]

[Ravor]

Well, it sounds to me like once they start messing with the or<==K==>s (Sorry, pet peeve of mine that I had to get out of my system.) they are basically setting themselves up for membership in the human gang, so I think I'd let them work their way up in the ranks and uncover hints of the interfernce that way.

[Fastball]

If the WP 1 was taken to be a min-maxer, then the troll deserves to die. If it was taken because the player thought it would be a fun concept to roleplay, then death is not deserved.

I see a weak-willed character as the type who blows his paycheck on one night at the bar or casino, and who can't hold a steady job because some days he just doesn't fell like going to work. Even so, there are still options for roleplaying several situations.

Scientologist recruiting:

1. The follower thinks scientology is the greatest idea ever and becomes a true believer, until the local mormon missionary comes around.

2. The character doesn't care about scientology, but signs up just to get the guy to go away. The new member information ends up in the trash, right next to the Book of Mormon, and Jesus for Jews pamphlet.

3. The highly unmotivated character doesn't care enough to even answer the door, because that would require him to get out of the chair. If the recruiter is persistent enough, he'll probably find himself confronted by a really pissed off troll screaming "What the drek do you want?"


Humanis Confrontation

1. The character with low self-esteem believes he is scum. He takes every insult to heart and ends up cryin back home, wishing he were dead, and hating himself for not even having the courage to kill himself.

2. The character with no control snaps after the first few insults. He doesn't care about the Lone Star patrol across the street, he just wants these punks to shut up and wades in swinging.

I do tend to agree that the character will need to toughen up a bit if he wants to survive in the shadows, but maybe those first few runs will be just what the character needs to build some self-esteem or to give him some new goals that makes life worth fighting for.

[2bit]

[Kyoto Kid]

[eidolon]

[Ravor]

Or that the runners themselves are hired/forced (For those groups that don't believe that the only reason you don't sell your own mother into slavery is because its more profitable to rent her.) to geek the shaman because they can get close enough to pull the job off. :cyber:

[FriendoftheDork]

[eidolon]

[ornot]

[Superbum]

I am far more brutal with invisibility in my campaigns.

It's an illusion, not a manipulation. They didn't actually go invisible, they merely tricked your mind into thinking they aren't actually there. Therefore if you try splashing the area with paint you will see it hit the ground (the caster still gets hit but you do not see that) or even setting off a sprinkler system will be pointless as you just see the water hitting the ground like normal (even though the caster is getting wet). You FAILED the check and now your mind is at the whim of their illusion and you cannot find them. Even if the caster were to shoot you or cast a spell on you while invisible you could not see them nor would these actions cause the casters invisibility to drop (yet you can still hear these actions taking place).

Furthermore, I don't allow Improved Invisibility in my game. It doesn't sit too well with me. How does an illusion spell affect things like remote cameras or vehicle sensors? It is magic and magic doesn't mesh well with technology.

So, in my games:

Can technology (like cybereyes or goggles) help you see someone using invisibility? No, you are within line of effect and have failed the willpower check and can no longer see the caster regardless of any actions you take. In essence, you eyes see the caster but your mind does not.

Can an invisible caster be seen via a vehicle's sensors or remote camera? Yes, you are not within line of effect and illusion effects cannot affect technology.

This doesn't prevent you from having any options for attack though. If you saw a mage go invisible you will of course think they are still around since you know they didn't teleport or some bullshit so you can still attack the area they were last at taking a -6 penalty on the roll (or hell, throw a grenade from that matter). If you hit the caster and they keep the spell sustained, you will see no blood and you will see the bullet(s) travel past where the caster was standing ending up in a wall or some other object further down (or your melee swing will continue through where the caster was standing as if nothing was there). The caster can still take damage but they will also stay completely invisible.

Of course, you don't have to work invisibility like I do. I just thought I would offer you a few more thoughts on how it could work.

[eidolon]

[Lagomorph]

FOTD,

Remember that sustaining a spell is either a -2 dice penalty to all other actions, or that it's going to be using the service of the "rat spirit". So if he casts imp invis, he'll be trying to cast his whateverbolts at -2 dice.

If the shaman has a sustaining focus, then he probably isn't from the barrens since they cost quite a bit. They are also limited to the force of spell they can hold, and I don't think that you can bind a focus higher than the characters magic rating.

[ornot]

I don't actually have an issue with your description or use of invisibility, Superbum. In fact it makes a lot more sense intuitively. Personally I think they introduced improved invisibility in response to complaints that it wouldn't work on cameras. The same goes for the mask spell.

But then they were stuck with trying to explain how a Physical illusion would make someone disappear from sight... which is somewhat trickier to justify. Still, this is not the place to discuss it, as there are already innumerable threads on the subject (resurrect the invisible flashlight thread if you must).

My point is mostly that if you were to hit an invisible character with a melee attack you would feel the blade/fist/whatever connect with the target, as invisible characters remain tangible. Of course if they were smart they'd move, but should they stay in the same place I'd grant a bonus to the attacker, offsetting the -6 dice to -4 or so.

[Jack Kain]

Lets recall his dump stat is will power, NOT charisma or Logic, THOSE are dump stats for Street Samurai Trolls.


Super, there are two forms of invisibility,

Standard which works as you describe, though few would take it to your extreme.
By your standards if they shot an arrow and impaled the invisible target. (the mage can make others invisible). They'd think the arrow was what stuck in the wall? on the floor?

Of course a remote camera option can be a smartgun. I don't think a few fingers should be enough for line of sight


BY RAW, Invisibility never effects hearing or other senses. The sound of a bullet hitting a person is very different then hitting a wall. Just as the character should feel his weapon hit something in mid air.
"The subject is completely tangible and detectable by the other senses (hearing, smell, touch,
etc.)"

Remember the more brutal you are with Invisibility, the easier the PC's turn the tables on you.

Improved Invisibility is a physical illusion, It effects technology, because it actually bends light around you making you invisible.

They still need an object resistance test. You'd need 4 hits to beat a drone. Well actually its 4+ hits for a drone so you could easily have a high military security drone that requires 6 hits.

Remember there are two types of Illusions mana based that effect the mind and physical illusions which are quasi real.

Hell you resist Improved Invisibility with Intuition instead of will power.

Shooting invisible characters is already fairly brutal
-6 penalty the smartgun is likely useless and its skill+intuition instead of agility.
Going from 18 dice to 8 is bad enough.

Some other options can be just peek around corners with a smartgun and hope the mage doesn't spot. And remember "target has partial over" offers a -4 penalty this applies to spells just as sell as guns.

[Superbum]

[Wasabi]

[ornot]

[ornot]