 Cyberlimb House Rules plus some questions... |
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 Apr 12 2007, 08:42 AM
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#1
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Cybernetic Blood Mage  Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361  |
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Cyberlimb House Rules I was wondering what House Rules people have come up with for Cyberlimbs in their campaigns to make Cyberlimbs something that charcters might actually want... Anyways, here are some that I've been thinking about putting in... - Cyberlimb Body/Strength/Agility and possibly Armor does not use capacy within the limb... (I'm leaning towards including Armor just to keep the Cyberlimb Enhancement rules as simple as possible.) - A Cyber Torso is only needed if a character seeks to raise a Cyberlimb's Stat above his unmodified Racial Cap. <<<<<>>>>> Cyberlimb Questions - Ok, I've never quite been sure how to handle Cyberlimb Armor, surely it isn't meant to simply stack with normal armor, perhaps its supposed to be averaged first? Then a single Cyberlimb with Rating 4 Armor will give 1 Point of Armor after rounding... - How do people interupt the partial limb rule on page 335 that states that a partial limb's stats only applies to tests involving that limb? Is there really any reason to buy up Body or Armor for a partial limb other then for damage tests against that limb only? (I would assume something akin to sticking your cyberhand into a meat-grinder.) - And do people give the extra Physical Damage box for partial limbs? The cyberlimb rules have always driven me insane... |
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 Apr 12 2007, 09:10 AM
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jacked in Group: Admin Posts: 9,575 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 463 |
All Cyberlimbs come with Body, Strength, and Agility attributes of 3 plus racial modifier (p. 335). The restriction for enhancements higher than 3 does not apply. Cyberlimbs have the following Capacity (obvious/synthetic): Full Arm: 20/10, Full Leg: 25/15, Hand/Foot: 6/3, Lower Arm: 12/6, Lower Leg: 15/10. Cyberlimb Enhancement use up Capacity as follows: Armor: (Rating), Body/Strength/Agility: (Rating/2) (round up). Cyberlimb Armor (p. 335-336) is added together from all cyberlimbs and then divided by 4 (round down); it stacks with worn armor.
Nope, only for full replacements. Bye Thanee |
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Apr 12 2007, 12:17 PM
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#3
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,148 Joined: 27-February 06 From: UCAS Member No.: 8,314 |
Er ... no. Page 335 states that attributes are averaged, and last I checked, Armor Rating wasn't an attribute. Even so, a lot of people feel that armor should be averaged like attributes, and play it that way. I disagree with these folks, for a number of reasons:
These arguments have led me to conclude that an armor point is an armor point. The FAQ has no help on this point, so for Official Word we may have to wait until Augmentation. |
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Apr 12 2007, 01:13 PM
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jacked in Group: Admin Posts: 9,575 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 463 |
;) Bye Thanee |
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Apr 12 2007, 01:45 PM
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#5
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,148 Joined: 27-February 06 From: UCAS Member No.: 8,314 |
[If this is a cute way of saying "I was posting my house rule; the page reference wasn't actually a reference to rules, just a way of saying that armor for cyberlimbs exists," then ... ] Ah! I'm sorry, I thought you were citing a rule. [If not, then ... ] Huh? |
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Apr 12 2007, 02:08 PM
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#6
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jacked in Group: Admin Posts: 9,575 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 463 |
Almost... the page reference is mostly a help for quick lookup of the actual rules. :) But yeah, the above is, of course, my house rule for cyberlimbs, which is what was asked for in this thread. Bye Thanee |
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Apr 12 2007, 04:55 PM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 834 Joined: 30-June 03 Member No.: 4,832 |
I have a house rule that obvious cyber limbs do physical damage and not stun.
If you want to do it, you can do partial damage boxes for partial cyber limbs. half arm = half box, hand or foot = quarter box, round down after all is computed. from what I recall, the official intended use of armor for cyberlimbs was to be extra protection for that cyberlimb in the case of a called shot. However, I lean in aarons direction for armor. perhaps, counting it as encumbering armor so it doesn't get too out of hand. (and also so it isn't stackable with wearable armor) |
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Apr 12 2007, 05:51 PM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 749 Joined: 28-July 05 Member No.: 7,526 |
This is what I'm going with until I find something I like better: Cyberlimbs: Cyberlimbs Come with rating 3 Body, Agility, and Strength as normal, but attribute increases do not cost capacity until it exceeds your body's natural unaugmented rating. If your natural rating increases during the course of the game, see your local street doc for an adjustment and you'll get that capacity back. Armor costs capacity as normal. I never made a rule for armor, but I mostly like what Thanee wrote. I would probably use:
except I would weigh cybertorso armor at full or half value instead of 1/4. |
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Apr 12 2007, 05:57 PM
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#9
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Shadow Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 3,737 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Secret Tunnels under the UK (South West) Member No.: 8,636 |
As a lopped off limb is a lopped off limb and it's hard to envisage a better quality arm costing less essence, I have cyberware grade affect capacity in the same way they would essence. It could get a little silly if someone wanted to stick three pistols in their deltaware cyberarm... but then they'd be deltaware custom pistols costing 10x the cost, so why not? Mainly I see it as a way of building cyberlimbs that are as powerful and tough as I imagine they could be. |
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Apr 12 2007, 06:31 PM
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 749 Joined: 28-July 05 Member No.: 7,526 |
Why is it hard to imagine a better quality arm costing less essence? :-P You don't lose essence for losing the arm. Essence isn't measured in kilograms.
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Apr 12 2007, 06:46 PM
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#11
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Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
Aaron, if you assume that Cyberlimb Armor stacks at full value then what is to keep someone from lopping off four partial limbs and walking around with +16 Stackable Armor for 1.8 Essense before counting Grade reductions?
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Apr 12 2007, 06:50 PM
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#12
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jacked in Group: Admin Posts: 9,575 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 463 |
Exactly. Essence Loss is more like how far it takes you away from being human or something along those lines... and better grades make them a better fit on that behalf. Bye Thanee |
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Apr 12 2007, 08:46 PM
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#13
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
What I did was to simply remove Capacity altogether. I limit characters to about one "big item" per unjointed section (for example, one character has a toolikit and a sat link in his arm).
The very concept that there would be a meaningfully limited amount of devices integratable into a leg when there are multiple devices integratable into an eye is absurd. -Frank |
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Apr 12 2007, 09:01 PM
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#14
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,148 Joined: 27-February 06 From: UCAS Member No.: 8,314 |
Nothing. Let's assume you're the player that wants the +16/+16 armor. Before you did that, I'd point out that you will have spent 44,800¥ for the privilege. Plus the fact that you'd have to run to make that kind of money, since a starting character can't purchase that much armor. I'd also mention the fact that you're stuck with average (or possible slightly better than average) statistics, having filled most of the space in those limbs with armor. I'd also point out the social and security issues with having obvious cyberware. I might also point out that hackers can take over your limbs if either they get close enough or compromise a system that is close enough, such as your commlink. I'd also mention that if I can think of things like hacking your limbs, then folks in the Shadowrun universe have probably already written how-to files on the subject. After all that, if you're still cool with it, knock yourself out. "Damage Sponge" is a perfectly legitimate position on a shadowrun team. Just make sure you've got a good Willpower. |
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Apr 12 2007, 09:06 PM
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,266 Joined: 3-June 06 From: UK Member No.: 8,638 |
Or alternatively you limit the amount of armour you can install on a limb. Dermal plating is limited to 3 ranks, after all. Setting the exact number might take a little playtesting though.
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Apr 12 2007, 09:19 PM
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#16
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jacked in Group: Admin Posts: 9,575 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 463 |
That's only possible, if the sammy is really dumb. ;) Bye Thanee |
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Apr 12 2007, 09:28 PM
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#17
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 393 Joined: 20-June 06 Member No.: 8,754 |
I have cyberlimb houserules on my website in my sig. Though I have yet to test them since our campaign dissolved ;(
- Cyberlimbs have no body rating. - Cyberlimbs do physical damage. Full arms do Str/2 + 1 damage. - Cyberlimbs cannot have armor, with the exception of cybertorsos and skulls, which apply their armor’s full rating to damage resistance tests. Armor is capped at 6. - A cybertorso is not required for higher cyberlimb attributes. - Cyberlimb strength is capped at 9 and agility at 6. - Troll cyberlimbs have 50% (round up) greater capacity and cost 10% more (most of the cost involved is the surgery, not the hardware). I'm also going to add these rules next time I GM. - Only full limbs add a box to the damage track. - Full cyberlimbs can have a maximum of 1 armor each. |
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Apr 13 2007, 03:33 AM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 101 Joined: 30-December 06 Member No.: 10,493 |
Which encourages characters to be mildly cybered, which is probably the 'intended look' for SR characters anyway. :) |
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Apr 13 2007, 04:00 AM
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#19
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,148 Joined: 27-February 06 From: UCAS Member No.: 8,314 |
Not necessarily. Back when I was playing a hacker, we were under attack by another team of shadowrunners, including their main muscle who sported two cyberarms and had already beaten through a wall with them. Our gillette and our adept were busy flanking them and dealing with a critical glitch plus a three-story drop, respectively, so our mage held their double-pile-driver at bay with a physical barrier long enough for me to get into his commlink and turn his arms off. They were definitely not dumb, and it could have gone either way, but if his arms had been made of meat we probably wouldn't have been able to stop him. |
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Apr 13 2007, 04:17 AM
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#20
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Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
Well I'd say that he was dumb for linking his arms to his PAN in the first place, what did he have going on that his arms needed to be connected to his commlink for?
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Apr 13 2007, 05:43 AM
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#21
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jacked in Group: Admin Posts: 9,575 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 463 |
Exactly. Just don't link them... there is absolutely no way you can hack them (FAQ also states this, IIRC).
Bye Thanee |
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Apr 13 2007, 11:40 AM
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#22
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,148 Joined: 27-February 06 From: UCAS Member No.: 8,314 |
If I recall correctly, the FAQ mentions that the trade-off for not having wireless cyberware is more maintenance problems, and goes on to say the GM determines which devices are computerized.
EDIT: Now that I think about it, I seem to remember the BBB specifically mentioning the hacking of cyberarms. |
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Apr 13 2007, 12:54 PM
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#23
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 141 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Austin, TX CAS Member No.: 1,097 |
Why? Just because the world went wireless all of a sudden cyberlimbs need more maintenance?
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Apr 13 2007, 01:42 PM
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#24
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,148 Joined: 27-February 06 From: UCAS Member No.: 8,314 |
Got me swingin'. I seem to remember that the FAQ mentions that wireless technology is cheap, and so most devices are now built with it. Plus it's definitely more convenient (I'd love to, for example, be able to check the oil on my car just by looking at it. So maybe it's less about the amount of maintenance and more about the interface. Keep in mind that the BBB also mentions that one can ask for non-wireless (wirelessless?) devices, at the cost of being looked at funny. |
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Apr 13 2007, 01:51 PM
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#25
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 141 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Austin, TX CAS Member No.: 1,097 |
No, I agree with you. I love all the wireless stuff. Just thought it was a funny statement that a cyberlimb might need more maintenance because its not wireless.
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