 Guns in SR4., In no way related to Arsenal. |
  |
 Apr 17 2007, 01:03 PM
Post
#1
|
|
|
Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 141 Joined: 12-August 05 From: Helsinki Member No.: 7,552  |
I have Street Samurai Catalog (2nd edition I think) and it has a picture of the MP5, and it looks pretty cool. But in SR4, it looks bulky and kinda cheaper. Why did they change the appearance, when the gun is still exactly the same?
What's the point with HK-227? In the pictures it looks bigger than an Ares Alpha? What's the point of having an SMG that's BIGGER than an assault rifle? Why would anyone use it? IIRC it isn't even that cheap. Why oh why is the AK-98 still not bullpup? You'd think that in seventy years they would have made a new model. |
 |
 
|
|
Apr 17 2007, 01:27 PM
Post
#2
|
|
|
ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
Never, ever attempt to go by the art in those books. Doing so will result in puzzlement. Avoid the art, and just compare the statistics given for the weapons.
Check out world.guns.ru to see a lot of real weapons, including the MP5. For the HK227, click here. |
|
|
|
|
Apr 17 2007, 01:29 PM
Post
#3
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 189 Joined: 17-December 03 From: Louisville, KY Member No.: 5,912 |
the original is what it looks like, in my game. in real life, the MP5 and its many variants look very similar. one look and you can tell it's from the MP5 family. also, H&K designs are typically very noticable and nearly all of their weapons fit a pattern.
in regards to the 227, that's not what an H&K 227 looks like. the SR guys kind of fudged the bucket on some of the firearm pictures in sr4. even though it's all sr3 rules, a really great place to see what guns look like and all that its at raygun's. http://matrix.dumpshock.com/raygun/firearm...s/navframe.html he has tons of H&K submacs in there, including the 227. |
|
|
|
|
Apr 17 2007, 01:30 PM
Post
#4
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 189 Joined: 17-December 03 From: Louisville, KY Member No.: 5,912 |
edolon! you beat me! arrrgh! :) |
|
|
|
|
Apr 17 2007, 01:33 PM
Post
#5
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 141 Joined: 12-August 05 From: Helsinki Member No.: 7,552 |
I agree with you, the stats are what matters. But, when it comes to guns, especially in Shadowrun where most guns of the same type are pretty much the same, the pictures are important. As is the case with most gear. It's not the same to look at the stats of the weapons and choose the guns from them alone compared to seeing the pictures and thinkin: "man that burner looks cool, I want that." The pictures are necessary.
edit: And my answer was for eidolon. Man you guys replied fast! |
|
|
|
|
Apr 17 2007, 02:01 PM
Post
#6
|
|
|
ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
I agree that visuals are important. In fact, I think the Street Samurai Catalog is one of my favorite books because they included images for stuff, even though it might not have been great in some cases.
The only time I really just totally ignore the pictures is when the weapon in question is - based off of, or straight up just is, a real weapon (real as in currently exists) - image doesn't come close to what is described/statted out (HK227) So in those cases, I go hunting for my own visuals. |
|
|
|
|
Apr 17 2007, 02:01 PM
Post
#7
|
|
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,109 Joined: 16-October 03 From: Raleigh, NC Member No.: 5,729 |
I have a ton of firearm images I would be more than happy to share. I have them neatly divided by categories (SMGs, Assault Rifles, Sniper Rifles, etc.), and all zipped up.
I also have an excel spreadsheet with stats for all of those weapons I would be happy to share as well. However, those weapons stats are based on several of my house rules for firearms in SR4, so they may not work properly in a canon SR4 game. |
|
|
|
|
Apr 17 2007, 02:03 PM
Post
#8
|
|
|
ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
Where do you go for images? I usually just use world.guns.ru, or I'll run a random search for "submachine guns" and just see what comes up.
Although I'm running out of cool looking weapons from world.guns to make into SR stuff. |
|
|
|
|
Apr 17 2007, 02:25 PM
Post
#9
|
|
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,109 Joined: 16-October 03 From: Raleigh, NC Member No.: 5,729 |
World Guns and Raygun's site are the two that I plunder the most for images. But here are a few others I use:
Military Photos.Net Is a good resource, specifically the Equipment and Gear section. Teppo Jutsu Remington Military And one of my personal favorites: SSK Industries Also, any Firearm-centric message board will usually have tons of threads with good images. Some of the best are custom jobs posted by board members...and just about every board has some "Post your gun collection!" thread, or variation thereof. |
|
|
|
|
Apr 17 2007, 03:23 PM
Post
#10
|
|
|
Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...just for kicks Raygun should have also included a graphic for the Ruger Redhawk.
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 17 2007, 03:43 PM
Post
#11
|
|||
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,109 Joined: 16-October 03 From: Raleigh, NC Member No.: 5,729 |
|
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 17 2007, 03:51 PM
Post
#12
|
|
|
Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...thank you. This is the style KK chose for her Super Warhawk (which is the descendent of the Blackhawk/Redhawk series)
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 17 2007, 04:48 PM
Post
#13
|
|||
|
ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
Cool, thanks. 8) |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 17 2007, 07:08 PM
Post
#14
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 548 Joined: 21-December 06 Member No.: 10,416 |
I agree, don't go by the art in the books. Its the d20 complex: they have to make the weapons HUGE so the typical gamer, who has no clue about weapons, will think it looks cool. A real battle axe, for example, isn't that big, but the ones in the artwork, even Arnold would have a hard time lifting, with both hands!
If you look at a lot of the SR guns, they probably wouldn't even work the way they are designed. Now, the Street Samurai Catalog and the Mercenary guides are closer to what guns should look like, much more so than the artwork with characters using the weapons. The extra bulk could be the Smartlink hardware, laser sights and things like that. |
|
|
|
|
Apr 17 2007, 07:16 PM
Post
#15
|
|
|
Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...yeah, I own a Glock 9mm & have fired a Colt Peacemaker, Ruger Redhawk, M16, Mossberg 12 gauge, and Winchester 3030.
Agreed the illos in SR are very "cinematic" in their style. |
|
|
|
|
Apr 17 2007, 07:17 PM
Post
#16
|
|
|
ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
Oh man, don't get me started on the weapons being used in SR art. :D
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 17 2007, 08:02 PM
Post
#17
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 858 Joined: 25-August 03 From: Braunschweig, North German League, Allied German States Member No.: 5,537 |
Actually, that's exactly how the HK 227 looks like - it's the original art from SR1! I'll give a quick rundown of SR4's guns and the sources of their pictures (disclaimer: I don't own SR1 so I might attribute some pics to SR2 that infact already were in SR1) Taser
|
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 17 2007, 08:07 PM
Post
#18
|
|
|
Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...I personally like the schoolgirl pic in Shadows of Asia. That is a very big gun she has. Kind of reminds me of my Otaku, Akima, who had an Eichiro Hatamoto. Only one shot per reload, but that is usually all she needed.
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 17 2007, 08:41 PM
Post
#19
|
|
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,180 Joined: 22-January 07 From: Rochester, NY Member No.: 10,737 |
I have one scene in my original fiction where the head of the Weaponsmiths Guild (whose name is Lugh Wieland, but insists that everyone calls him Q for some obscure reason :)) is taking shop with a soldier and gives him a new gun to try out.
~*~ "We haven't come up with a name for it yet," Q said, opening the weapon locker, "but some of the younger members of the Guild are calling it the 'ELG 100'." "ELG 100...?" Q smirked and pulled an oversized gun case out of the locker. "Excessively Large Gun 100." ~*~ It's a railgun that shoots self-forging shaped-charged projectiles--and is designed so that foot soldiers have an option against heavy armor. |
|
|
|
|
Apr 18 2007, 01:00 AM
Post
#20
|
|||
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,537 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Albuquerque NM Member No.: 9,234 |
You realize you have three contradictory things in that one statement? Like hand carried, laser guided 2000 pound cluster bomb used for pinpoint no-collateral damage assassinations in crowded urban environments? |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 18 2007, 01:23 AM
Post
#21
|
|||
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,109 Joined: 16-October 03 From: Raleigh, NC Member No.: 5,729 |
Real life foot soldiers (like I used to be) actually do quite well against armor. AT-4s, Dragons, and their ilk are easily portable by a single soldier, and make a serious mess of all but MBTs. Even then, mobility kills are VERY easy to achieve. You don't need a magic, James Bond, Sci-fi gun for grunts to be effective against armor. Just read the fragging news, and you'll understand. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 18 2007, 01:33 AM
Post
#22
|
|||
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 66 Joined: 9-March 07 Member No.: 11,195 |
But in SR4 you also need realistic rules reflecting this fact. IMO "NPC" armor in SR, especially that of military vehicles but to a lesser extent military armor, is overpowered. Maybe that's so there will be vehicle and people that runners simply can not fuck with, but it's still pretty unrealistic. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 18 2007, 01:57 AM
Post
#23
|
|||
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,109 Joined: 16-October 03 From: Raleigh, NC Member No.: 5,729 |
Lets see. GMC Banshee (military vehicle) Body: 20 Armor: 18 Anti-Vehicle Rocket (with shoulder portable launcher) DV: 16P AP: -6 vs. vehicles So with a single net hit, the Banshee is rolling 32 dice, or, most likey, buying 8 hits on his soak roll. That still leaves 9 boxes of damage to a vehicle with an 18 box damage track. That looks pretty fucking effective to me. And check out what happens when you have 2 or three fairly competent shooters all hitting that Banshee at once. POP-goes-the-T-Bird. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 18 2007, 02:34 AM
Post
#24
|
|
|
Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
I think that you're going to see the development of high energy repeaters (be they sub-caliber cone guns, railguns, coilguns, ETC weapons, injected-gas smoothbores, or whatever your incredibly damaging huge weapon of choice is), rather than one-shot or low-rate-of-fire systems like the AT-4 or TOW II missiles, when your "armored" targets start being enemy infantry. Why you'd need a shaped charge on a railgun is beyond me, though...
Besides, I'm pretty sure the GMC Banshee is one of the heaviest vehicles in SR we've ever really gotten stats for, and it's described as being a "light t-bird vectored-thrust craft ... designed for reconnaissance and courier duty." If we had stats for, say, a Stonewall MBT, we could really get into this... sadly, however, we don't, being stuck with what're essentially the equivalent of APCs/IFVs until they realize there's a market for the "big book of everything that got shown off at Desert Wars this year." Given the selection of vehicles we do have at the moment... yes, weapons beat out armor, as long as you're using a weapon that's actually supposed to be effective against armored targets. Assault Cannons, HMG's with APDS, and AV Rockets are where I'd start thinking about that... |
|
|
|
|
Apr 18 2007, 02:38 AM
Post
#25
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 548 Joined: 21-December 06 Member No.: 10,416 |
Don't forget about anti-missile systems and automatic anti-personnel system. In the first Merc book, they mentioned the systems that looked for infantry aiming missiles at the vehicle. By 2070, those systems could be linked directly to the existing weapons, since many of them are remote controlled anyway, via software. Better make that shot quick.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 23rd November 2025 - 12:27 PM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.