Death and Shadowrun, Grim Reapers Toll Options

[Demon_Bob]

So the group I am in restarted the campaign, and the player with the most annoying concept asked if he could re-spin his Character keeping the exactly the same background.

Although the GM said sure, we were talking afterwards about just killing the character for spite if he continued along the same path as he was with the previous one.

My suggestion was either to make him create a new character, or . . .
Alter the characters background to something akin to the Manchurian Candidate.

But the question I was wondering is how often does Player Character Death occure in most games?

And is it wrong to look at a Player and say, "A toilet seat from a semi-ballistic plane that was taken out by terrorists slams into you at high velocity as your standing there wondering ???."?

[Demerzel]

[Lagomorph]

[Glayvin34]

I'm an SR player, but a DnD DM. I'd say that 25% of missions should have a lethal quality if the players don't pay attention, but I'd NEVER design a mission that was certain to kill a certain player without their permission. They look so sad when their characters die unexpectedly.
:(

[Fezig]

Unless desired by the player I don't believe character death should be an inevitability, however the threat must exist on a good portion of the runs to create grit, and if the characters get careless, sloppy, or just really unlucky then they may perish, its a charm of the system and setting.

I voted "Depends on Players."

[fistandantilus4....]

[Lady Door]

Dead Like Me was an awesome show. 10 Karma for you. :)

[toturi]

[mfb]

[Thane36425]

I rarely actually tried to kill any PCs. Missions wouldn't be easy, but as long as they didn't do anything stupid or if they were just getting bad rolls and didn't make a habit of pissing off the GM, then I'd cut them a little slack, even if that meant them waking up in a Corp infirmary being put back together.

There have a been a couple of players though that just asked for it. You know the kind: the ones who are a royal pain in the ass game after game, munch chips with their mouth open, rules lawyering, etc. I had one who so desparately wanted to get a Nightsky limo that he drove me freaking nuts. Well, finally there was a run where a target had to be abducted who was riding in one. The team had a sweet plan for taking them down with no fuss, but this jerk off shoots the driver anyway and gloats all night and into the next session. The rest of the group was sick of this guy too, so, while his character was driving to a meet, yes a mangy runner (and he was one) in a Nightsky and Lone Star tries to stop him. He would, a chase ensues which is ended with a little help from a Corp Yellowjacket piloted by a friend of the driver this fellow killed. 2 AVGMs later, no more Nightsky and a PC Tanamous wouldn't even want.

Most of the time though characters only die if they are stupid, which includes being too stupid to cut and run on a mission if need be.

[ElFenrir]

I voted depends on the players. Some players like a more hardcore campaign than others; and i try to tailor on what is going to give the players the most fun. Some prefer lower action, lower danger more laid back games, others high danger, high lethal, and some like a little of column A, and a little of column B.


Occationaly i come up with a module that is alot of one or the other; i ask the players if they would be interested in playing it. Modules are a little different in the way that you can create characters specificly for it, and not use long played favorites if it's a really bad ones.

However, if the players just walk into really bad situations, they tend to get what they asked for.

I do keep in mind the newer system and the Edge burning system makes things considerably easier on the characters than the old Hand of God system. It sort of leaves things open to create a little more deadly scenarios without the fear of losing a long-time beloved character.

Character death is always a touchy subject. In one camp you have the ''its a hard world, you make mistakes, you should pay dearly, and no extra chances, i don't care if youve played the character for a year'' and the other ''sometimes the dice just do nasty things, when the player did everything right, and these people shouldn't be punished so harshly for something beyond control''. Too little death cheapens the game(some say, again, some people like a more laid back or cinematic type of game), and too much just makes it not fun(again, to others, some like a game where you need the hypothetical clone sixpack.) Others are in the middle.

I think its best to keep your style open and adjust for players. :)

[deek]

I've never "tried" to kill a player, either in SR or DnD. Sometimes the player may not be cautious of that "next hit could kill me" and if it does, I let it happen, but that was their choice to not retreat or go defensive. If they have no regard for their mortality, than neither do I.

But normally, "dying" means going into negative points and unconscious, to be revived later, so not too big a deal from a long-term campaign standpoint. I make sure that the threat of dying is all around, having close friends or trusted contacts die, showing that I am not afraid to do it, but as long as they are playing "smart", then I just try and be fair.

I will say that almost every encounter (minus the ones that they are certain to overpower) my players get the feel that they could die. Seeing only 10 or 11 boxes on their sheet certainly is a painful reminder that they can't take too many hits! And they play accordingly with strategy, cover and full defense, so its all good!

[hyzmarca]

I think the biggest issue should not be trying to kill PCs but not not trying to kill PCs. PLay your NPCs in a way you feel is realistic and if the PCs screw up then don't be afraid to make them face the logical consequences of that.

[bibliophile20]

[Eryk the Red]

I've actually been deliberately upping the lethality of my game recently. We've had no deaths thus far, in part because I've been fudging things in favor of the players. They've had good careers by now and I don't feel they need or deserve that protection anymore. There's always burning Edge if they really want to, right?

That said, I don't gun for players. I'm not looking to fill bodybags/collect shredded sheets. But, well, a death or near-death to remind them that it's a real concern wouldn't hurt if it did happen.

[fistandantilus4....]

My POV, if it's a big nasty combat, people are going to get shot p and die. but I'm pretty lenient with second chances (HoG, DocWagon, skilled irst aid/magical healing etc). There have been a few occassions where a character just had to stay dead from combat, like, say, he got blown up. A lot.

Otherwise, the few times when dead is just dead is if it's very clear cut like a major plot agains them or killed by another PC, etc. These have all happened in my games. PCs cleaning up "loose ends" for example. That's always fun, you know, when your PC becomes a "loose end". Pc vs PC ala Spy vs Spy can be fun.

[Blade]

I think that the rules are made so that you can't really die instantly without being able to see it coming. What I do is just play the rules as they are.
If they say that the PC has to die, he will. If the PC can use Edge/patches/magic or anything to prevent his death, he can do it.

So as soon as there's combat, there's a possibility that the PC could die.

As for putting the PC in situations that will get them killed I just try to be realistic. If they accept a mission too dangerous for them, mess with the wrong guy or anything like that, they can get themselves in really dangerous situations.

[Kyoto Kid]

...nearly had my first PC death & the odd thing was, it was during "downtime" before the next mission.

It was a mage character who wanted to summon and bind a spirit during weeks between sessions. Well this was a case of "dice unkind" on both the character's and my part. All but one die for the spirit (a force 4) were hits while the mage rolled no hits on her drain & went unconscious (but thankfully in her case not a glitch). Of course, the spirit (a spirit of fire none the less) did what they do when a binding attempt goes awry and attacked her. Fortunately another mage was there and took one of the attacks which would have definitely done in the summoner (who was down to I believe 2 boxes on her physical track) before taking the spirit out.

and like I said, we hadn't even made it to the initial meet yet.

[fistandantilus4....]

I died on a rating 2 astral quest once. :(

[Mistwalker]

I went with Depends on the players, cause for me, that includes when they deserve it. 8)

[Kyoto Kid]

...one of the best (and most humourous) was a troll mage with Charisma 1 (SR2) who summoned a force 3 city spirit. This was his first attempt at summoning and the drain was Deadly P. He rolled no successes on his resistance test.

[Meriss]

Hmm... Maybe my GM's have been too polite. I've almost never seen a PC death, then again I've only played with a small group of me, my two brothers, and my two brother's friends. But this was not SR rather a homebrew hack'n'slash game. (Massive critter death, a little Monty Haul at times though, heh good times.)

[nathanross]

Why doesn't SR allow clone drops? :D

[Wounded Ronin]

Ideally missions should be challenging, the opposition should be determined, and Pdeath should occur when the dice fall as they may. If there weren't a risk of death there'd be no point to playing strategically and keeping track of character stats. I don't think a GM should necessarily set out to specifically kill a character but he should set the stage to where that's always a possibility.

[odinson]