"Burn all the Edge you want..., ...you ain't getting out alive." Options

[bibliophile20]

While I'm all for allowing the burning of Edge to invoke the Hand of God and let a runner pull his rear out of the fire, there are times when even the Hand of God isn't going to be able to save the runner; direct divine intervention might, but we're playing Shadowrun, not D&D, and there are some scenarios where survival, in terms of the rules in the SR universe, is not simply unlikely, it's downright impossible, much less what it would do in terms of suspension of belief.

So here are some scenarios where I wouldn't even bother letting the player burn the edge, because there's no point to it:

Honking off a Great Dragon: you're lunch. your bones go crunch. Any questions?

Having the overflow damage meter go over by more than two or three points: you're already dead--what, they have to make you into paste to get the point across?

Having the overflow damage meter overflow from a called shot to the head: your brains are decorating the room. Kinda hard to come back from that.

Anything involving decompression in a space suit: space is a deadly environment, and should be treated as such.

Anything involving a rupture in your [sub/habitat/hardsuit/etc] more than half-a-mile down: Ditto above. Forget chunky salsa, you'd be a smear on the upholstery.

Being inside a collapsing building: Uh-uh. I've seen too many pictures of building demolitions to believe anything larger than a cockroach has any chance of survival.

~*~

So, anyone got any others, or ones where the PCs might survive, at the expense of their entire Edge attribute?

[fistandantilus4....]

Cranial Bomb. You're dead. Unless your name is Red Wraith.

[Luddite]

Eh, I can see most of those situations (okay, not the sub or space suit) allowing for a second chance.

[toturi]

Burn 1 Edge:

1) GD decides to be to keep you alive.

2) Overflow? Looks can be deceiving.

3) Overflow? That's called shot for better damage, not to the head. Edge says you shot my ass for better damage.

4) The stars align and there is a mana warp in [x] that sends you into the metaplanes.

5) The stars align and there is a mana warp in [x] that sends you into the metaplanes.

6) The stars align and there is a mana warp in [x] that sends you into the metaplanes.

7) Cranial bomb? Bomb's a dud, but detonator scrambed your head some, take some damage but not enough to deadify you.

(Otherwise known as the rules said so, so you as the GM comes up with something that makes sense, that's the point of all that God-like power.)

[Rotbart van Dain...]

So, basically, bibliophile20, you are missing the point:
There is no such thing as 'impossible circumstances' - just a lack of creativity. :P

[mfb]

there was an SR novel that started off with a character coming "back from the dead"--she'd been thrown overboard in the middle of a shark frenzy. she survived because there was a free spirit that owed her a favor. i always assumed that the author was describing HoG.

[FriendoftheDork]

[Blade]

For me burning Edge is not an option the player has, it's an option the GM can offer the player.
So it pretty much depends on what the GM wants. Of course, he is encouraged to discuss it with the player too.

[FriendoftheDork]

[EvilP]

[bibliophile20]

This thread was inspired by the "how often do you kill PCs" poll, and it just kinda occurred to me, if PCs can continuously go "Hand of God" then it's impossible to ever truly kill them, and, at least to my mind, if the possibility of PC death is so remote that it's neigh impossible to kill them, then part of the gritty feel, where, to quote one of the shadowtalkers, "someone might cave in your head for your cheap commlink" is gone or at least incredibly weakened.

Then, my mind being the way it is, I started coming up with scenarios; to take one of the ones from above, if Lofwyr or Ghostwalker decides to make an example (and lunch) out of you while you're in their presence? You're screwed. Rip in a spacesuit? You're toast, unless an airlock or a suit patch is right there and you had the foresight to make sure that option was available.

Edit:

EvilP: I know that, but unless your buddies are right there or, like I said above in this post, you had the foresight to bring a patch kit along, those few turns are rather pointless.

This post has been edited by bibliophile20: Apr 26 2007, 01:18 PM

[WhiskeyMac]

The BBB states that only 1 Hand of God can be used, ever. Unless they changed that in SR4, which they might have but I have only ever used it 1 time. God doesn't want to be continuously bothered by some wanna-be runner who doesn't know how to keep himself out of a deadly situation. It's annoying and God might decide to let the fragger die while sipping a mojito before he intervenes again.

Or in short: Maybe God had both his hands busy at the time?

[Rotbart van Dain...]

[toturi]

[FriendoftheDork]

[kigmatzomat]

I think that HoG saves PCs from individual problems but not situations as a whole. Let's say that Chuck is blown out of an airlock with no space suit. His first HoG is to survive the immediate decompression as he is sucked into the void. His second HoG is to grab an antenna and avoid drifting away in space. His third HoG is to find an airlock before he passes out or to summon rescue.

Now, how much Edge does Chuck have left and how much fun is the Gm going to have with him?

[Luddite]

Definitely true. I've GMed the hand of god quite a few times, but the only time I've used it myself was to take an uber-powerful NPC out with me.

[FriendoftheDork]

[Rotbart van Dain...]

[DireRadiant]

You live till the next HoG, or you run out of Edge to burn.

If the GM wants to kill a PC, what the RAW says doesn't matter.

[Kyoto Kid]

...I still only give one HoG per character. Hell, she has better things to do than mollycoddle PCs that do stupid things all the time & expect her to pull their butt out again and again.

[Dakhran the Dark]

Just to point out, burning Edge HoG-style just keeps the character alive, it doesn't completely keep them immune from their own stupidity. Just because they live through something, doesn't mean that they don't pay the piper and face the music.

• They tick off Lofwyr and spend the point to avoid being instant lunch or charcoal briquettes, and I'm sure that Saeder-Krupp R&D will end up with a new "volunteer" for their latest prototype cyberware that has a 70% risk of scrambling someone's brain...
  
• They screw Johnson and get shot by a God-spot sniper with a Barrett and a few rounds of aimed called shot, and by luck the wind picks up and causes it to graze the back of their head, to end up missing a small chunk of cerebellum that leaves them a quadriplegic that can do nothing but blink, at least until they spend the nuyen or sell their souls for the hideously expensive medical procedures and cyber/bio that might eventually have them walking again...
  
• They're captured instead of killed by Ares/Knight Errant security, who decides to use them to point out the flaws in Lone Star coverage of the city and publicly announce their capture, then turn them over to Lone Star for processing as a criminal -- crime statistics go up, prison population increases, all these numbers cause Lone Star to lose face, and our shadowrunner is now Bubba the Troll's love interest in a supermax facility somewhere offshore...

Personally, if their near-death experience isn't CLUE-worthy, if it just happens in normal play due to crit-glitching or something, I'll give them a more-or-less complete bye on death. But if they're about to become chunky due to their own actions, they might be alive, but they'll still pay...and hopefully, learn...

[Moon-Hawk]

In 4th edition:
Hand of God is the escape clause for NPCs. PCs do not use Hand of God.
Escape Certain Death is the edge use that PCs use to escape certain death.

3rd edition Hand of God is very similar to 4th edition Escape Certain Death, except ECD can be repeated and is less costly.

[Kyoto Kid]

[Dakhran the Dark]