 "Burn all the Edge you want..., ...you ain't getting out alive." |
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 Apr 26 2007, 03:48 PM
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#26
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 906 Joined: 16-October 06 Member No.: 9,630  |
Here's how edge saves you from honking off to the great dragon. Hell it doesn't even need to be edge.
The Dragon finds you funny. Say your an elite 500BP shadowrunner Mage, combat adept, Street Samurai. What ever. And some drunk idiot os honking off to you(what does honking off mean?). That isn't always motive for murder. You might just kick the crap out of him. Here's what I see happends dragon knocks you out steals all your stuff and dumps you naked in another country. Say your in Denver. Well welcome to China. Hand of God can work in a lot of ways say through the intervention of others. Say your trapped in a back ally about to be blown away by corp security. You burn your point of edge and instead of being turned into swiss cheese. Someone stunballs the entire ally and you wake up in some Shaman's hut. He saved you because he is an enemy of that corp and figures the enemy of my enemy is a friend. Or maybe it was gel rounds and instead of being dead your just captured and the next run is saving your sorry ass. Say you get blown out an airlock. Well instead of the guy pushing the button, your ally showed up and gets the chance to blow him away before he blows you away. Say your being trampled by a stamped of bulls. You spend burn your 1 edge and you get thrown clear instead of being trampled. OR maybe you just live because people have survived stampedes before. REAL LIFE EXAMPLE: This happaned while filming the lord of the rings During one of the shots filming the charge of the Rohirrim, a horse rider fell off the back of his horse. All the horses that came behind him miraculously managed to either miss or avoid him. |
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Apr 26 2007, 03:49 PM
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#27
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
I don't expect you to change your terminology, but since a lot of people are new to SR in 4th edition, I thought it was worth saying once, for clarity's sake. Now everyone knows that ECD used to be called HoG, so when people say HoG they may well be referring to either ECD or HoG. :-)
Carry on. |
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Apr 26 2007, 05:14 PM
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#28
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 588 Joined: 27-February 06 Member No.: 8,316 |
on the honking off a great dragon front, I had a team run through that module on great dragons, and obviously in the end they had to honk off on of two great dragons... lofwyr or hestaby. I couldn't see either standing idly by and letting them get away with it, so I had lofwyr start killing all their contacts. He couldn't do anything to the pc's directly, but every one of their contacts and their contacts families etc started dying, dojo's started being blown up etc. So the players decided to retire to Shasta (become NPC's) except opne who tried to have a genetic makeover done. Unfortuinately for her, that kind of cutting edge tech is exactly lofwyr's alley.
As to the exploding building, depends on the building and the bomb. WTC yeah that's not survivable. A wharehouse and the person has a ton of armor on thats feasible if the bomb isn't too large. |
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Apr 26 2007, 05:28 PM
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#29
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...GDs are overrated as plot devices. Nasty mind you, but like IEs, still overrated. Give me some good ol' fashioned Corporate Political Intrigue...
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Apr 26 2007, 05:46 PM
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#30
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 399 Joined: 27-May 04 Member No.: 6,361 |
Well some players will let their characters die if it turns out bad. Usually its just bad luck that many players will use this.
Also, encourage them to let their characters go if it comes to it by letting them build new characters of equal power (E,g. BP and/or karma). |
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Apr 26 2007, 05:56 PM
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#31
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...when it comes to dealing with GDs as a player, I actually prefer instant death. Otherwise I have just given the GM another NPC that I worked hard to develop.
@Xenith: I like the idea of letting player design a more "experienced" character rather than making them play a noob. It's like in that "other" game having to play a 1st level when the rest of the party is 8th. |
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Apr 26 2007, 06:09 PM
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#32
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Target Group: Members Posts: 66 Joined: 9-March 07 Member No.: 11,195 |
I don't really mean to threadjack here, but if this is coming from Survival of the Fittest you really kinda screwed your PCs. I ran the same module, and the PCs successfully ran through the ritual and gave the victory to Hestaby. Rather than seeking revenge, directly or indirectly (IIRC the protection afforded by the contest ends along with the contest) the other GDs filed the runners under "competent, honest, and honorable." Dragons don't like to lose, but when you're a few thousand years old you probably learn to do so with a modicum of grace. While it never came up, had Lofwyr ever needed deniable assets he knew to be as close to incorruptible as possible he would have used the PCs. Also, from the fiction at the back Lof was looking to maybe get a little of that Hestaby action, so he'd probably avoid messing with her pet runners. |
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Apr 26 2007, 07:14 PM
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#33
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Actually, the mating proposal was entirely based on the fact that Hestaby beat Lofwyr - and thus proved her worth as a potential mating partner. Though the runners are protected by the ritual, L is vindictive and the ultimate puppeteer - it's only a question of time until the dish is served. |
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Apr 26 2007, 07:56 PM
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#34
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Target Group: Members Posts: 18 Joined: 20-March 07 From: Boise, Idaho: A future focal point of Sixth World interests. Member No.: 11,267 |
A player should never count on edge/HoG to pull him out of a clearly fatal situation going in. It's all there to save your behind when you roll a botch on a check to do something like jump out of a burning boat or evade death via direct missile impact. :smokin:
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Apr 26 2007, 09:39 PM
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#35
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
yeah, i started to run a game where each character had to try and kill all the others. one of the characters submitted had no stats, no skills, a detonator, and as much C12 as he could physically carry. his plan was to drop the C12 in the room the characters started in, jump out the window, detonate the C12, and HoG to survive the fall.
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Apr 26 2007, 09:53 PM
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#36
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
..and what would keep the others from HoGing the C12?
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Apr 26 2007, 09:55 PM
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#37
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Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
Wait!
Uhm... nothing... :grinbig: |
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Apr 26 2007, 11:53 PM
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#38
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
Decompressing spacesuit: your air venting into space blows you back into an airlock/towards your waiting buddies/wherever, and isn't leaking fast enough to kill you before they can patch the suit or get you into atmosphere. You're gonna be spending a while in a hospital, though...
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Apr 27 2007, 01:11 AM
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#39
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
now that you remind me, i believe he had two bombs. one of them was in some kind of special setup that would protect it from the first blast. the game went bust before it ever got started--the players ended up just trying to one-up each other in terms of over-the-top rules hackery. |
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Apr 27 2007, 09:07 AM
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#40
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,168 Joined: 15-April 05 From: Helsinki, Finland Member No.: 7,337 |
Im cool with the new Edge rules. Again, im all about having fun, and if the players have fun with the Edge as it is, im happy. (Yes, ive played with people who preferred NOT to be helped, or at least more than once. It's their choice to use it.)
That being said, i have limits, too. While there are instances of amazing survival in a bout anything(no, headshots are not always fatal. Yes, people have survived parachutes not opening. And so on). If the person is, say, strapped with umpteen kilos of C-12...well, then maybe it all didn't go off and they only have their limbs blown off like the guy in that movie(johnny's got his gun i think? They might not be happy.) Sometimes, stuff just leaves them with damage so bad they might think that sometimes dead is better. :P Things that utterly destroy the body would be about it, though. If youre body's destroyed there is nothing TO come back from. BUT, again, one can assume the Edge burning causes this NOT to happen. That being said, i wont go out of my way to screw over the edge rules. If they could survive it, why not? In addition, there are plenty of situations where the PCs could be captured instead; the ol dead men tell no tales. Really, i leave it too the party. If they want it deadlier, ill limit to once per campaign or none at all. If they like it how it is, good also, but i also dont believe in rewarding people who sit there and jump off a building repeadetly and burn an Edge point to survive each time. My patience for stupidity has its limits. ;) |
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Apr 27 2007, 02:14 PM
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#41
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,333 Joined: 19-August 06 From: Austin Member No.: 9,168 |
That's how I see it too. If you're at 3 boxes of overflow because the troll with the LMG rolled really well, and you rolled really badly after an extended firefight, HoG is your "Just barely made it" clause. You're standing, with 1 box to go. Or possibly unconcious, to await the outcome of the fight. And trust me, losing a point of Edge *hurts* - I know you can spend Karma on it, but I'd make you spend from your "true" Edge, personally. If you're at 3 boxes of overflow because you walked up to the GD and punched it in the nose to show how badass you are? You didn't die. But you're probably not a playable PC any more either, for one of many possible reasons. |
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Apr 27 2007, 04:52 PM
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#42
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Old Man of the North Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 10,429 Joined: 14-August 03 From: Just north of the Centre of the Universe Member No.: 5,463 |
Doesn't "Burning" mean it does come from the "true Edge", rather than the spending of a temporary point?
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Apr 27 2007, 04:57 PM
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#43
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Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
I think lorechaser meant that when it comes time to buy your Edge back up, you will be paying for that point based off its 'Real Value' instead of its Current Value.
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Apr 27 2007, 06:35 PM
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#44
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,333 Joined: 19-August 06 From: Austin Member No.: 9,168 |
Indeed. If you had 4 Edge, and you burned a point to survive, you're at 3. But I'd require you to spend Karma as though you were going from 4 to 5. This isn't RAW, and is in fact opposite how magic is dealt with. I don't care. ;) I also would require adepts to spend for their true magic - 2(6) would cost 6->7 to gain a point, even though it's been said that it should be 2->3 |
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Apr 27 2007, 06:52 PM
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#45
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Target Group: Members Posts: 18 Joined: 20-March 07 From: Boise, Idaho: A future focal point of Sixth World interests. Member No.: 11,267 |
I don't know 'bout that. There are certain scenarios like the OP posted, where HOG really shouldn't save you, and in my opinion that certainly qualifies. If it happend to my character, I wouldn't contest it. Sometimes, you're just plain fragged. Certain extenuating contingincies could certainly change the circumstances, of course: Say, the decompressing runner has an internal cyberlung w/oxygen reserve? I'd give him a fighting chance to do something to save himself from the hard vacuum by burning some edge to come up w/ a makeshift patch/solution, Or if they're right next to an open airlock when it happens. Then I might let them burn a point of edge every round to cycle the door until it opens. |
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Apr 27 2007, 06:55 PM
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#46
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
..if you have a mean to survive by yourself, you don't have to burn edge if you succeed.
You burn Edge if you don't. |
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Apr 27 2007, 08:42 PM
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#47
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
Basically, if you want to houserule Edge to not be the be-all, end-all savior attribute of the game, feel free. I let it work for everything.
I usually find more interesting stuff happens when characters survive, is all. You don't lose out on all those PC/NPC relationships, intercharacter banter, etc, and there's nothing like being unconcious and bleeding ("jeez... Nemesis needs to lose some weight"), heavily irradiated ("okay, next time, I'm driving"), exposed to an exotic disease ("my what fell off?!?"), or suffering from being that 10% of the population after an LD90 dose of Seven-7 ("*coughcoughhackhackwheeze* Soyburger, please. *gaggaghaaackspitcoughcough*") to make life amusing. |
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Apr 28 2007, 12:40 AM
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#48
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...spontaneous Metahuman combustion ...Thor shots ...orbital bovine bombardment ...Drop Bears |
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Apr 28 2007, 04:03 AM
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#49
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 410 Joined: 5-April 07 From: Vancouver, BC Member No.: 11,383 |
All this HoG talk makes me think of that book with kid stealth. Did he burn edge when he was tossed in the water with his feet in cement and had to cut his own legs off to survive, or was that just how bad ass he was.
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Apr 28 2007, 04:15 AM
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#50
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 906 Joined: 16-October 06 Member No.: 9,630 |
Ok at that point you really are screwed no amount of edge is going to save you. Your supposed to burn the point before it goes that far. |
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