 Tradition question, tatoo magic? |
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 May 4 2007, 02:11 AM
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#1
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Shooting Target  Group: Members Posts: 1,696 Joined: 17-February 07 From: Middle Sized City, Ontario, Canada Member No.: 11,025  |
Does tatoo magic exsist in the Sixth World? The ancient cultures that invented tats had some pretty cool beliefs. Is it possible that with the right ingredients you could make magical tats? Would you have to be Awakened to benifit from these tats or what?
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May 4 2007, 02:17 AM
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#2
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
Yes, yes. Tattoo magic exists. For SR4, go to Street Magic and read up on Quickening Materials.
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May 4 2007, 02:19 AM
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#3
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,696 Joined: 17-February 07 From: Middle Sized City, Ontario, Canada Member No.: 11,025 |
Could you elaborate for a Broke newb AH?
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May 4 2007, 02:40 AM
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#4
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
Tattoo magic is, essentially, a method of making quickened spells that are more difficult to damage or dispel. The spell is quickened to a tattoo (or brand, or ritual scar, etc.) made with quickening materials (ink, tools and the like made from magical reagents) which increase the amount of Karma a magician can sink into the quickened spell. Expensive, but then again such a spell is pretty much permanent once on there.
Naturally, the Yakuza are most famous for using tattoo magic (and skilled spellcaster/tattoo artists are in high demand), but magical traditions worldwide engage in equivalent practices-some might prefer brands or ritual scarring (certain African traditions, for example, would prefer traditional facial scars), others would have a different preference on style and material (Druids would likely prefer woad tattoos, f'r instance). You can do other things with tattoos too, like use them as a medium to record spell/spirit/focus formulae. |
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May 4 2007, 02:43 AM
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#5
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,696 Joined: 17-February 07 From: Middle Sized City, Ontario, Canada Member No.: 11,025 |
Kewl, thanks AH.
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May 4 2007, 03:12 AM
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#6
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,180 Joined: 22-January 07 From: Rochester, NY Member No.: 10,737 |
Can nano-tattoos be quickened? And can the quickening be done after the tattoo has been made?
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May 4 2007, 03:30 AM
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#7
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
You don't need a tattoo to quicken things on people. You can use magical quickening materials to increase the difficulty to remove a quickened spell, but you don't have to do that. That being said, a Nanotatt would be of essentially no assistance in quickening spells. But you could put down some quickening materials and then layer a nanotatt on top of it if you really wanted to. -Frank |
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May 4 2007, 03:31 AM
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#8
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
Probably not a nano-tattoo, no. Possibly a previous tattoo if the GM approves (still need to use the quickening materials, though).
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May 4 2007, 03:36 AM
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#9
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
i don't see any reason a nano-tattoo couldn't be quickened. rules don't say anything about what the tattoo ink can't have in it, just what it's got to have in it. as for a previous tattoo... well, you could ink over the existing tattoo with a magical tattoo of the same design, i'd think.
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May 4 2007, 03:37 AM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 718 Joined: 10-September 05 From: Montevideo, in the elusive shadows of Latin America Member No.: 7,727 |
How about something like quickening materials but for anchoring? I don't remember whether that exists or not...
Cheers, Max |
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May 4 2007, 03:39 AM
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#11
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
what, like a tattoo that's an anchoring focus? kinda neat, i guess. it should be possible--i don't believe there's any rules about what form a focus has to take.
edit: though i'm not certain i'd allow it. seems to tread on the toes of that adept power that allows you to be a sustaining focus. |
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May 4 2007, 03:43 AM
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#12
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
Small correction: the rules for telesma state it has to be an inanimate object. Since Quickening is a prerequisite for Anchoring and the processes of creating a quickened and anchored spell are similar, you could make a case for Anchoring materials (or extending Quickening materials for such a use). However, given that anchoring already possesses a specific metamagic enchantment, I would probably rule against it in my games. If some GMs do approve of "Anchoring Materials," I would remind them that they should follow the same restrictions as using Quickening materials, and would not be combinable with anchoring foci. |
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May 4 2007, 03:45 AM
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#13
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
eh. the tattoo ink, i think it can be argued, is inanimate. perhaps you'd have to enchant the ink first, i dunno. like i said, i'm pretty sure i wouldn't allow it, but i think if someone wanted to, the rules are vague enough that they wouldn't really need a houserule.
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May 4 2007, 03:50 AM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 238 Joined: 24-January 07 Member No.: 10,756 |
So since y'all are on the quickened tattoo thing, question one of my players threw at me. One of my players wants to know if he gets a quickened tattoo, and it gets dispelled, could he re-quicken a spell to it without paying more money for quickening materials again. I'm kind of thinking no, since it seems like a work around, and also thinking that if someone does successfully dispel a tattoo quickened spell, it might do some damage as the tattoo burns off or something. Call it a box of unresistable physical, maybe.
What's y'all take? |
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May 4 2007, 03:51 AM
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#15
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
Dispelling the spell would not cause any physical damage to the tattoo (or the player), but it would destroy the enchantment. I'd rule that he'd need additional quickening materials to re-quicken the tattoo as before.
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May 4 2007, 03:54 AM
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#16
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
i could go either way. on the one hand, i think the tattoo is supposed to be a serious investment. on the other, it is a serious investment--it costs as much as or more than a good piece of cyber. i'd certainly rather not see the tattoo "wasted", especially since it eats up permanent space on the body.
i think what i'd do is this: if the quickened spell is dispelled, the tattoo cannot be reused. however, since it's no longer a quickened spell, the skin area it covers is "refunded"--you can put a new quickened tattoo over the old one. |
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May 4 2007, 01:02 PM
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#17
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
This is actually a misconception; under the current rules there is no limit to the number of quickened spells a character can be subject to at one time, and there are no requirements on the size of the tattoo/ritual scar/brand. |
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May 4 2007, 04:53 PM
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#18
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Shadow Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 3,737 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Secret Tunnels under the UK (South West) Member No.: 8,636 |
This reminds me of Mr. Dark in Something Wicked This Way Comes. He had symbolic tattoos of those he had "claimed" all over his body.
Now if there were just some way to quicken a Control Mind spell, cast on a specific victim, then you could reproduce the character in Shadowrun. One of my favourite villains of any book I've read. |
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May 5 2007, 06:51 AM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 811 Joined: 30-January 07 From: Portland, OR Member No.: 10,845 |
Okay, someone brought this up before, but no one has yet answered it.
Do the tattoo artist and the mage casting the quickened spell have to be the same? I have gone back through Magic in the Shadows to review the original rules (Haven't checked Grimore or earlier edition magic rules), but havent been able to find anything that clarifies this. It merely states the rules for the creation of the tattoo, after which you can quicken the spell to. Why I am asking is that while I have the necissary Karma to Quicken the spell, I do not know how much it would cost for another mage's Karma. Does anyone have a rate on this? The book sucks in this regard (like mages wouldn't sell a service for the right price to a mundane), and it fails to address some of the costs and availabilities of Magic on the streets, not just the cost of materials for mages, but the costs of mage services, etc. Anyways, shoot some prices my way. |
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May 5 2007, 08:52 AM
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#20
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Shadow Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 3,737 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Secret Tunnels under the UK (South West) Member No.: 8,636 |
There's a dwarf tattoo artist in Runner Havens who is a mage and does the quickened spells himself, but I think most GMs would probably allow a mage to do have someone else do the actual tattooing under the mage's supervision. It doesn't affect game balance, anyway. |
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May 5 2007, 12:53 PM
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#21
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
No.
Ah, the perennial question: how much for an intangible? The answer: whatever the market will bear. At the very least, I'd suggest 3d6 x 100 :nuyen: per point of karma spent - and that's just for the spell. You'd also have to cover costs for the materials and the tattooing. |
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May 5 2007, 05:07 PM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 811 Joined: 30-January 07 From: Portland, OR Member No.: 10,845 |
3d6x100? That seems pretty cheap, and I would gladly pay only 18,000 for the 10karma required to quicken Increase Intuition force 5.
How about the labor for the tattoo? In SR3 it was treated like a ritual and had some tests the tattooo artist had to make. Seems they got rid of that as well as the surface area rules (how convenient :D ). What would you charge now? The rating 5 materials only cost 2,500 nuyen. |
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May 5 2007, 05:14 PM
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#23
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
hm. i was never really happy with the skin-coverage limit... but i'm not sure no limit is a good solution, either.
in MitS, it was 5k/point. |
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May 5 2007, 05:30 PM
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#24
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
Well, if you're going to bother using quickening materials, you'd really want to pay for 15 Karma to get the most out of it. Anyway, that's for the Karma (actually based on the old cash-for-karma rule); the materials actually cost 5,000 :nuyen: (re: gear tables in the back of Street Magic). The cost for the tattoo itself depends on the size, complexity, and skill of the artist in question - traditional art forms (probably preferred) will be more expensive and harder to find, but will probably look better and less likely to be ruined. Prison tats bought for drugs smuggled in your colon are less likely to be as good. Last, there's finding a magician with Quickening and the spell you want willing to do the job - and that is definitely going to cost you. (Minimum of Force x 1000 :nuyen:) The cheesy answer would be "compare the results to the equivalent cyberware." But of course most sustained spells are not as comparable. Really, it's up to the GM as part of the cash vs. karma balance of the game. Getting in tight with the oyabun or magical society that practices the technique can be the set-up for a proper adventure. |
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May 5 2007, 05:44 PM
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#25
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
Personally, I wouldn't want someone with a quickened anything on my team. Wards are simply too frequently encountered to make that a good plan. Even if the quickened spell isn't destroyed by pushing it through a ward, an alarm goes off in the mind of an on-call security mage somewhere. That's all bad.
Quickening stuff is fine if you live out in the wilderness and the only astral barrier you meet is the one on your own magical lodge - but if you're a globe trotting shadowrunner, you go through other people's wards constantly enough that quickened spells of any sort are a major liability. -Frank |
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