 Astral Projection and assorted stuff... |
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 May 29 2007, 10:50 PM
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#1
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Shooting Target  Group: Members Posts: 1,838 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,669  |
If a magician has the Cerebral Booster bioware, is the increased Logic retained by the magician's projecting astral form?
Likewise, if the magician has the Mnemonic Enhancer bioware, is the bonus to Knowledge and Language skills available while projecting? Is it possible to create mana-based Improved Attribute spells for Mental Attributes that will be retained by the projecting magician's astral form? The normal physical improvements are ties to the physical form and are thus useless for an astral magician. |
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May 29 2007, 11:47 PM
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#2
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,206 Joined: 9-July 06 From: Fresno, CA Member No.: 8,856 |
I'm not sure I agree that the physical spell cast prior to projecting would not count.
As a general rule, from past memory, enhancements paid for with essence count for all aspects of magic. I don't have any pages or anything, but that's my first impression. |
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May 30 2007, 04:08 PM
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#3
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
I agree. Paid for with essence, so you keep it.
Not sure about the spells. |
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May 30 2007, 04:24 PM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 718 Joined: 10-September 05 From: Montevideo, in the elusive shadows of Latin America Member No.: 7,727 |
IMO: cyber, yes; spells, yes, but I wouldn't know if it needs not be physical...
Cheers, Max |
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May 30 2007, 06:44 PM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 749 Joined: 28-July 05 Member No.: 7,526 |
I would rule yes, if the spells are cast in astral space on the projected magician's form or while he is perceiving. They would follow his astral form. Spells affect either the physical plane or astral plane, not both. |
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May 30 2007, 06:54 PM
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#6
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,206 Joined: 9-July 06 From: Fresno, CA Member No.: 8,856 |
As a counterpoint to that statemnt. Consider, a physical combat spell cast on a projecting magican's body will damage the body and the astral form. See p.184 the While You Were Out box. |
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May 30 2007, 07:13 PM
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#7
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,838 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,669 |
I think the key point is that a physical spell can not alter the attributes of your astral form, not where it is cast. I would think that mana-based Improve Attributes - for the Mental Attributes only - should be fine in both the astral and the physical realms.
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May 30 2007, 07:21 PM
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#8
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
I think this just made up my mind. So the astral form would not be a valid target for the casting of a physical health spell, however the comatose physical form would be a valid target, and the astral form would benefit (or suffer) the effects of the spell as appropriate. |
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May 30 2007, 07:26 PM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 749 Joined: 28-July 05 Member No.: 7,526 |
Actually no - the astral form doesn't take damage that the body receives. The projecting magician feels the pain, but won't actually receive damage until the body and spirit are reunited. This is how the spirit is able to persist after the body dies, and vice versa. Edit: This is also why you can't heal an astrally projecting magician by casting Heal on their comatose body. |
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May 30 2007, 07:29 PM
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#10
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
You can't? Shoot. Okay, I'm back to being confused.
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May 30 2007, 07:30 PM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 633 Joined: 23-February 06 Member No.: 8,301 |
I was under the impression that there is no difference between harm to the astral form and harm to the body. They share the same condition monitor. It's not that attacks against the body also affect the astral form; it's that there's no difference between the two once the damage is suffered.
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May 30 2007, 07:49 PM
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#12
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 749 Joined: 28-July 05 Member No.: 7,526 |
Well, that's my interpretation anyway :-/ They definintely share damage before projection - if you have 3 boxes of damage when you project, your astral form has 3 boxes of damage on it - but if you say they share damage while separated, then I don't see how a projecting magician can live for Magic X 2 hours if the body takes two rounds in the heart or something. The projecting magician floats around with all the boxes on its condition monitor filled? I don't buy it.
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May 30 2007, 08:05 PM
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#13
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,206 Joined: 9-July 06 From: Fresno, CA Member No.: 8,856 |
From that While You Were Out box I refered to:
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May 30 2007, 08:14 PM
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#14
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
Ahhh, mental tranquility.
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May 30 2007, 08:20 PM
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#15
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,206 Joined: 9-July 06 From: Fresno, CA Member No.: 8,856 |
Now, being highly adverse to mental tranquility, how does this work?
Hoes does only one die when they both take damage? Oh yuck (new thought): Does that mean that your physical condition monitor in Astral Space is based on your Astral body and can therefore be different from your physical condition monitor in Physical Space? Oh the humanity! |
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May 30 2007, 08:30 PM
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#16
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
Aaah, cognitive dissonance!
Well, if the body is dead, and thus the link to the body is severed, then the body is no longer forcing the astral to be damaged. So it ceases to be damaged. A cop-out? Perhaps. But hey, it mostly only matters to PCs anyway, and probably makes a better plot device this way. |
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May 30 2007, 10:08 PM
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#17
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 749 Joined: 28-July 05 Member No.: 7,526 |
Back to the original topic, though, I don't think the Increase Attribute (Mental) spell would work for increasing astral stats by casting it on the mage's physical body. It's a sustained effect happening on the physical plane, and the mage's mind and spirit are no longer on the physical plane. Hence, the spell ceases to affect him when he projects.
Would you allow an Increase Attribute (Body) spell cast on the astral plane on a projecting magician's astral form to affect his body on the physical plane (if it was a mana spell)? of course not. And would you really let someone cast Heal on a magician's body and have it heal their astral form?? I think that's crazy talk. :eek: |
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May 30 2007, 10:42 PM
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#18
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,206 Joined: 9-July 06 From: Fresno, CA Member No.: 8,856 |
Well, first off I would suggest casting the increase stat spell prior to projecting, when it's affecting the whole rather than the body or the astral form seperately.
However it is not clear that an effect on one such as a spell does not affect the other, while it is clear that there is a link. As to allowing healing on the Body to affect the Astral form I'd have to say that it's a two way street, if Damage works why can't healing? |
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May 31 2007, 02:09 PM
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#19
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
I think it's probably easier to just go with the blanket statement of what affects one affects the other. If you hurt/heal/affect one, the effects will be felt on the other, through the link.
Death is the singular exception, because all of the above works because of the link, and death is the loss of that link, so the rules are a little different. Why not just have the astral form instantly dissappear if the body dies? Because the persisting astral form is a great plot device, that's why. :-) |
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Jun 1 2007, 05:51 PM
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#20
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,245 Joined: 27-April 07 From: Running the streets of Southeast Virginia Member No.: 11,548 |
I don't see why not. The Increase Attribute spells (from the existing books) are physical since they affect your meat body. I would have to say that you'd make Mana spells to affect your Astral Body. I'd also rule that while you could cast such spells in the physical world, they do nothing for you until you entered Astral Space. Then while you are there, those spells would work for you. |
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Jun 1 2007, 06:16 PM
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#21
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,206 Joined: 9-July 06 From: Fresno, CA Member No.: 8,856 |
The difference between physical and mana spells is that a physical spell can affect nonliving things. So you don't need P type to affect your physical meat. Just like a manaball can still fry you if you don't prohect.
I'm not sure there'd be a good reason to say that a Mana based increase attribute spell does not work unless you project... Once upon a time there were physical and mana spells for increasing attributes, one was increase attribute and the other was increase cybered attribute... |
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Jun 4 2007, 03:21 PM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 113 Joined: 5-January 03 From: Butte County, CA Member No.: 3,836 |
Wait. Do Heal spells cast at an Astral Form heal it? I was under the impression Heal only heals Physical Damage and the Astral Form, if anything, was linked to Stun.
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Jun 4 2007, 06:16 PM
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#23
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,206 Joined: 9-July 06 From: Fresno, CA Member No.: 8,856 |
You still have a physical damage track and a stun damage track while astrally projecting. Heal only affects the Physical Damage Track.
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Jun 4 2007, 08:49 PM
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#24
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Old Man of the North Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 10,137 Joined: 14-August 03 From: Just north of the Centre of the Universe Member No.: 5,463 |
Hmmmm....
Would an astrally perceiving adept be able to use Pain Relief on an astrally projecting person to remove Stun damage? |
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Jun 4 2007, 09:02 PM
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#25
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,206 Joined: 9-July 06 From: Fresno, CA Member No.: 8,856 |
From whence does this pain relief come?
If you mean the spell in SR4 Resist Pain it does not remove damage just eliminate the modifiers. That should work with no problem, it is a Mana spell and therefore targetable on an astral form. |
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