 Turn Floor to whipcream! |
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 May 30 2007, 02:34 AM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 615 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,895  |
Turn Floor to whipcream!
Type: Physical +1 Range: LOS-Area +2 Duration Sustain: + 0 Physical Maniupulation +0 Major Change: +2 Drain: (F/2) + 5 This spell turns a a section of floor / ground into a substances with the physical properties of whipped cream. A cylinder force meters in diamter and force meters deep is affected. Note this really only works outside or places where the 'floor' is meters thick. Great for opening 'pits' under people. while not directly effecting the people (thus no counterspelling) having a pit of whip cream open up underneath them certainly puts a dampner on their actions (and likely causes visiblity / movement issues (and possibly failing damage). |
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May 30 2007, 03:18 AM
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#2
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...now we just need the transform objects to Strawberries (area effect).
[edit] Better yet Turn Beings to Strawberries mmmm strawberries.....whipped cream...ahhhhhhhh! :lick: |
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May 30 2007, 04:46 AM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 410 Joined: 5-April 07 From: Vancouver, BC Member No.: 11,383 |
It can still be counterspelled can't it? The mage would have to have delayed his action, unless he specifically stated he was protecting the floor underneath him, and then he would roll counterspelling and reduce your net hits.
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May 30 2007, 05:08 AM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 615 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,895 |
Odinson: While I agree with you: 1) How many mages go around delaying their actions.... First time it is going to catch them... perhaps not the later times, but first time YES. 2) Technically no....
The rules consitantly refer to 'character', as written it appears that counterspelling applies to entities not objects. Now personally I agree and would allow a mage to declare they are providing counterspelling to objects (if they can see said object, though only the most parnoid is going to constnatly go around protecting the floor. Now I do also allow a mage to 'protect' objects on a person. If Mage is providing Spell Defense to the sammy. If mage can see Sammie's gun, I presume they are providing spell defense to it (though this admitedly is a house rule) |
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May 30 2007, 05:14 AM
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#5
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,174 Joined: 13-May 04 From: UCAS Member No.: 6,327 |
Combine this spell with the mass orgy spell and pull up some trid cams and you're in business for the next girl's gone wild industry.
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May 30 2007, 06:07 AM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 615 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,895 |
PBTHHHHT:
You might want to check out my Living only please! spell. Wash those clothes right out of the way. |
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May 30 2007, 09:03 AM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 179 Joined: 15-November 06 Member No.: 9,866 |
laughingowl:
With all these odd spells you are suggesting, do I even want to know what type of mage you are creating? |
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May 30 2007, 04:42 PM
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#8
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Target Group: Members Posts: 39 Joined: 22-September 04 From: 9th Circle of Hell Member No.: 6,692 |
On a more serious note. This spell would be deadly to anyone who sank below the surface of the cream. They wouldn't have any air to breath, and they wouldn't be buoyant enough to swim to the surface.
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May 30 2007, 05:12 PM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 834 Joined: 30-June 03 Member No.: 4,832 |
If you stop sustaining, are the people buried under ground?
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May 30 2007, 06:31 PM
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#10
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
i'm not sure counterspelling wouldn't work. i mean, it works on fireball, even though you don't cast fireball on anyone--you just make a certain area explode into horrible flame. the only difference between this spell and fireball is that it has no effect on air, and whipped cream doesn't generally leave third-degree burns.
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May 31 2007, 12:07 AM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 113 Joined: 5-January 03 From: Butte County, CA Member No.: 3,836 |
Point :D |
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May 31 2007, 02:33 PM
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#12
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 615 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,895 |
The I was stuck at work, the other threads on the mage vs. Wifi threads got me thinking of spell design. Well late a night, bored at work, and .PDF copies of you books ae a dangerous thing. Then again: The Corrode Object, Shape Any one Object, and Elemental Armor I would strongly consider as spells. The others were more fun, though could see some possibliity for them |
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May 31 2007, 04:04 PM
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#13
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...for some reason, Turn Floor to Whipped Cream seems so, Harlequin. I could actually see him using it.
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May 31 2007, 04:10 PM
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#14
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Personally, I think that spells which allow you to transform part of an object into another material set a bad precedent. Transform Building to Whipcream makes more sense than Transform Floor to Whipcream.
Such spells boarder on called shots, which is certainly not possible with direct spells. |
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May 31 2007, 05:06 PM
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#15
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 398 Joined: 16-August 06 Member No.: 9,130 |
This isn't DnD, and there is no such thing as Spell Resistance in SR4. Counterspelling would still apply as long as the mage said he was using "active" counterspelling. Which continually manipulates the mana around those that are protected. I don't have a page number for you, but I think it might be in Street Magic. "Active" counterspelling also allows a mage to counterspell spells he isn't even aware of. EDIT: In case you were wondering, this was the game mechanic that was created so mages could counterspell illusions and other spells like them that a mage would never have the chance to be aware of if it were targeted at their teammates. |
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Jun 1 2007, 02:05 AM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 113 Joined: 5-January 03 From: Butte County, CA Member No.: 3,836 |
Hmm, area effect. Maybe it's not so much targeting the floor as an seperate entity, but targeting the materials that make it up... By floor you mean wood, concrete, plascrete, earth, ceramic, etc? Might work better as 'Turn Building Materials and Earth in Affected Area to Whipcream'. That way it can work on walls and ceilings too :D |
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Jun 1 2007, 11:44 PM
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#17
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 615 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,895 |
Atually go back and read the counterspelling section. You can make a very strong argument that unlike spells which mention 'objects' or targets. Counterspelling ALWAYS refers to characters / persons / people / etc. Also since objects dont have a resistance technically counterspelling would never be rolled. Now it is a fairly easy (and common) house rule to allow a mage to declare an object also under protection (and I allow the mage to protect any 'possesion' of a person he is protecting) but you also have to house rule what happens. Most likely roll counter spelling dice. Subtrat hits. Compare net HITS to object resitance threshold and see if it is effected. But as written OBJECT never get a resitance test, which also means spell defense would never apply. |
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Jun 2 2007, 01:40 AM
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#18
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
yes, but Turn Floor to Whipped Cream does affect people inside the radius of the spell--they fall, because the magically-transformed substance won't support their weight. the fact that they are directly interacting with the direct results of the spell says, to me, that counterspelling placed on people inside the radius of the spell should apply.
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Jun 2 2007, 02:28 AM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 615 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,895 |
SO by that logic if your have coutnerspelling and I shapechange into a bear and maul you, the coutnerspelling has a chance to dispel my shapechange? Sorry, that I cant by. If I cast a hellblast. Coutnerspelling would keep you from taking damage, but does not cnacel the spell. If the blast is enough it very likely blows the floor / car / whatever into pieces. If you were standing on that floor, you may not have felt the least amount of heat of blast from the hellblast, but if the floor is a smoking crater, counterspelling or no counterspelling you are going to fall. Turn Floor to whipcream does NOT affect people. Now the lack of a floor MIGHT affect people. But if I mage hand press the detonator on a claymore. Your counterspelling does NOT protect you from the claymore going off or somehow interfere with my mage hand. Now HOUSE rules may allow a mage to declare (either as a delayed action, or as a sepll defense target) the detonator, so he could try to distrup any spells attempting to affect it, but this would be a house rule, and the existing rules provide no mechanics to aid 'objects' both in description and the fact that counterspelling adds dice to the resitance test, yet OBJECTs dont get a resistance test. |
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Jun 2 2007, 03:03 AM
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#20
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
that's a good point, but shapechange is a single-target spell; therefore, anyone you attack when you've been shapechanged into a bear is not in the area of effect. moreover, the damage your claws deal when you're a bear is not a direct effect of the spell--it's an effect of you taking a swipe at someone with sharp things sticking out of your paw. you could be swiping that paw at anyone or anything, it doesn't have to be them.
the claymore example is a no-go--the claymore's explosion is not a direct result of the spell, it's an effect of the claymore's design. turn floor to whipped cream does directly affect people in the area of effect, because it affects the structure they're standing on. if you hellblast the floor out from under someone, that's a secondary effect--the flames you created burnt things. if you had a spell that created a substance that converted floor material to whipped cream, that would not be subject to counterspelling. |
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Jun 2 2007, 03:31 AM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 615 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,895 |
the Falling example is a no-go--the falling is not a direct result of the spell, it's an effect of gravity. Tecnically the people 'affected' do not need to be in the area of effect. They are 1 micron above the area of effect which is the substance below them. Spell defense specifically does not 'jam' the spell, rather it jams/interferes with the spell interacting with an aura. Since if five people are in the area of effect, and 4 of them have spell defense, then the 5 still takes the full effect. Likewise: Fireball into a gas refinery. Even if the mage is protecting himself with counterspelling, if the fireball cooks off the surronding gas tanks and they explode mage is fried. Or: Ram Floor: If you cast ram on the floor beneath the character, regardless of their spell defense, if the floor is shattered they are going to fall. Some times targeting other things are far more effective then targeting what you want to hurt. |
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Jun 2 2007, 03:43 AM
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#22
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
that's impossible. area spells don't work that way. the mage has to have LOS on the center of the effect--you can't start the spell at ground level and have it extend underground without having it extend an equal distance above ground. the only reason the person falls when they step on the whipped cream is that they are directly interacting with the direct effects of your spell. that's no different from catching fire when you cast fireball on the area around them. ram floor is, again, a targeted spell--you target the floor with it; anyone standing on the floor is out of the area of effect. |
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Jun 2 2007, 04:48 AM
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#23
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 615 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,895 |
Yet Shape Element allow is an area affect spell that allows one to shape an element specifically to dig a hole and or create a door.
It is IMPOSSIBLE to see below the firsr mcron of the elment yet it is able to creat a hole. so it is clearly possible to effect area if it is a defined object. By the rules for Shape Element, while I most certainly could not affect (at once) the entire Statue of Liberty (being large then the area of effect) I can make her topless and shift so of the flowing robes to make her even more buxom. I certainly can not 'see' all of the concrete I am effecting but it is part of a whole and can be effected (even if I could not effected ALL of it at once). Seeing the floor would be no different. While I certainly couldnt turn the whole building to whipcream I could turn a part of it to whipcream even more then I could 'directly' see since I can see the building. With Shape Element as an example I dont see why it would be possible to transform object (in this case floor) or a portiion of an object as long as you can see a porition (not all of it). Heck even with shape element it is debatable you could make a pit for somebody to fall in., You are able to move a volume (never specifies) (but potentially force meters radius) hits meters per turn. Moving 6M radius sphere of dirt from below somebody to a Cylinder 4-6 meters (hits) above the 'ground' level) would mean a fall of say 6 meters and a 'wall of up to about 12 meters (with the first 6 meters being thick (the actual ground) and then the next 6m possibly being only a few inches. No rules are given for what happens to a person standing on the dirt being moved, but considering unless they are allowed to move (and somehow move past/through the moving dirt) or they can fly, they are going to fall. Turning the floor into something with the constancy of whipcream doesnt seem that much different than causing it to rise up into a huge column. |
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Jun 2 2007, 05:29 AM
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#24
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
i don't have access to SM atm, so it's somewhat difficult to debate. but here's why your interpretation of the rules is a bad idea: what happens when someone creates a Turn Air to Fire spell? the drain on Fireball is +5, just like Turn Air to Fire would be. same drain, but one of them denies those affected by it the chance to counterspell. guess which one i'd learn, if i were a mage?
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Jun 2 2007, 06:12 AM
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#25
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 615 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,895 |
Well might not be too effective (as long as the runners have some place to breathe and/or can get out of the area. 'Fire' isn't necessarily that dangerous. I would probably say that anything in the area has to soak 1 fire damage per hit. So every a force 6 spell would be a maximum of 6 damage to soak (from fire). and very nice pyrotechnics. Now suffocating might be more of a problem (especially if in an enclosed area) but that is still long enough to give the targets plenty of chance to do something about it. Just like turning the floor into nothing. Just like 'acccident' power of spirits. In and of itself they are relatively harmless. Howver if used creatively and/or in the right spots could be very effective. And if you don't have SM with you how about the main book: {quote]Ice Sheet (Environmental, Area) Type: P • Range: LOS (A) • Duration: I • DV: (F ÷ 2) + 3 This spell creates a slippery sheet of ice over the area of effect. Characters crossing the ice must make an Agility + Reaction Test with a threshold equal to the hits scored to avoid falling prone. Vehicles must make a Crash Test (p. 159). The sheet melts at a rate of 1 square meter per minute in normal temperatures.[/quote] From my take of the rule Spell Defense wouldnt help here as there is no resitance test (not if a mage could take an action to 'dispell' but thats totally different). Now this particular one the characters do get a listed chance to avoid (and perhaps it would be fair to give them an agility+reachtion test to jump away from the floor as it turns to whipcream), but don't see how counterspelling would help. Likewise: Physical Barrier: Put in front of a character. Does counterspelling allow them to run through the barrier like it doesnt exist? There is no resistance test, Spell Defense (as written) doesn't apply. Do you suddenly allow the counterspelling mage to weaken the barrier before the character smashes into it? or does the character get a bloody nose? Here Spell Defense (IMO) would have even a more logical help, since 'magic' is directly impacting the character. However as written there is no resitance test, so spell defense would have no effect. Likewise: Turn to goo: cast on the PILOT of the plane while character is in the back (pilot not visible). Spell Defense surely doesn't help the character in the back. As the pilot turns to goo and the plane goes out of control. |
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