 Questions on Elf and their nation |
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 Jun 7 2007, 11:51 PM
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#26
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 732 Joined: 21-July 05 From: Seattle Member No.: 7,508  |
Which is why California got carved up like a Thankgiving turkey and Seattle is a well-polluted blister in the NAN. Everyone wanted them. Pick a good-sized chunk of real-estate that everyone else is overlooking and no one is going to fight you for it until after you've made yourself a nation. There aren't many places in NA that can be isolated so well as the Pacific NW.
But again, I think the locations have less to do with economics and more to do with mana levels... might have helped if one or more of the Princes had an economics degree that didn't involve feudal overlords. Probably hard to shake off the habits of the last few millenium. ;) |
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Jun 7 2007, 11:52 PM
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#27
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
the Tir books definitely were, um, enthusiastic in their presentation of elves. it wasn't so much power creep as power stampede.
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Jun 8 2007, 12:05 AM
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#28
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
You are welcome to your opinion. Most importantly, you're welcome to keep your opinion to yourself because some of us are tired of hearing it. If you would like to bitch about immortal elves, please go and start a new topic "Bitchings About Immortal Elves (And Great Dragons)." I have little doubt it will be a crowd pleaser-and hey! You'd be on topic. The great thing about looking back on these sourcebooks, having read them and those that followed, is the perspective you gain. For example, just because the Two Tirs were presented as complete and impenetrable badasses by the Powers-That-Wuz doesn't mean they were, or more especially, are. It is important to realize that some of the material in every Shadowrun book comes from unreliable narrators, and gamemasters should realize the flexibility that gives them in their own campaigns. "But FastJack said that they tandem-patrolled the North Woods with spirits and drones!" "Yes he did. However, you don't see any. Maybe he was mistaken. Wrong. Senile. Doped up on meds at the retirement home." "FastJack would never lie to me!" "Keep telling yourself that. Your whining has, however, upset a group of wodewoses." "Isn't this a bit too far north for woodwoses?" "The tallest woodwose craps into his hand and throws it at you." Sorry, sorry. Digression. Long story short: the Tirs are much more player-friendly now. |
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Jun 8 2007, 12:15 AM
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#29
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...ESPN sure seems to think so... :grinbig: [edit] Seriously, The demise of the TT was in part due to an economic policy, namely the move to go to isolationist after Dunkie's assassination. Without trade, the economy withered as primary goods and materials became scarce. Soon after a good portion of the TT "Haves' became "Have Nots". Not just the elven "Gentry" mind you but those from the lower and even middle strata of the "privileged" class. According to SoNA, by the time the Council reopened the borders, the economy was pretty much in shambles with most of the national corporations seriously on the ropes. Both Portland and Salem (which was outside the wall) experienced violent civil unrest. It comes as no surprise that several of the founding council members thought it wiser to jump ship before being caught in the undertow. |
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Jun 8 2007, 12:20 AM
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#30
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Deus Absconditus Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,742 Joined: 1-September 03 From: Downtown Seattle, UCAS Member No.: 5,566 |
AH is on the money here. Tir security, back in the day, was tight. But look at it compared to a AAA's security. Slightly behind - not by much, but still nothing a carefully planned run can't circumvent. It was like the iron curtain during the days of the USSR, except with much more patrollable borders. It's tough but doable.
Same goes for Tir Ghosts. They're no scarier than any other highly trained, well-equipped black ops team. They get played up as being the be-all end all, but remember - they have stats. One of my PCs had very good IC reasons to be terrified of dealing with them, even though I knew as a player that his 350 karma made the point somewhat moot as long as they didn't get the drop on him. |
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Jun 8 2007, 01:05 AM
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#31
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,451 Joined: 21-April 03 From: Austin, TX Member No.: 4,488 |
I thought I'd throw my two cents in and say that Ireland and Oregon weren't chosen for their economic status, but because they were there centuries ago. I can't remember the names of the countries from Earthdawn (that's AH's area of expertise...then again, so is what I'm posting frankly...), but the two elven nations from there were both in the same geographic locations as they are now.
And there were about a half dozen to a dozen immortal elves who have been awake and active for millennia building wealth and power (both political and magical) for EACH of the two countries just waiting for the Awakening so they could get their power back. And I don't care what civil wars have broken out in Tir Tairnegire, I promise you the same half dozen immortal elves are still pulling the strings. The Abstruse One |
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Jun 8 2007, 01:38 AM
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#32
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,838 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,669 |
Wow. You really are an AH. Just because you don't want to hear it doesn't mean he can't say it. BTW, I too dislike the IEs. In my games they are not elves at all. They are powerful Free Spirits with Realistic Form that simply appear as elves. The Dragons I pretty much keep as is, but my 4th World was NOT Earthdawn (I dislike the connections they've made) and my 7th Wolrd will not be Battletech. :P |
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Jun 8 2007, 01:41 AM
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#33
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 941 Joined: 25-January 07 Member No.: 10,765 |
The funny thing of it is, I am reasonably certain that this is the only time I've really posted my dislike of the whole 'Elven Nations of Doom' or Immortal Elves.
Tired of hearing it after one and a half posts? Man, that must limit your conversations a might. :P |
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Jun 8 2007, 01:52 AM
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#34
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Target Group: Members Posts: 7 Joined: 21-June 06 Member No.: 8,756 |
The only things I don't really like about the Tirs is that I can't figure them out. Here you have this group of people who have been around for 5k years or so, seen empires fall, walked the streets of Rome, and probably helped knock down the Berlin Wall making every despot mistake in the book (and Lord knows that book is huge). It just seems like after spending multiple fortunes in :nuyen: all they got for the deal was getting to be top dog for a couple decades. I just can't help thinking they must of gotten more out of it or started these countries for another reason because they really make no sense.
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Jun 8 2007, 01:54 AM
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#35
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
Not particularly, no. The Blood Wood was located in Southern Belarus, and the Theran provincial capitol of Parlainth is in Kursk. Almost all of Earthdawn stuff takes place in Eastern Europe. North America is barely mentioned - and certainly does not have the seat of the mighty Elven Nation. -Frank |
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Jun 8 2007, 01:56 AM
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#36
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
Yes. There is only one Ancient History, and I am he.
Where to start...it's Metahuman Form, there is no Realistic Form, and the next mana cycle was never slated to be Battletech (a few oddball conspiracy theorists aside). Though we do have our Toaster worshippers.
Please don't take this personal, but you're not the first with the same gripe. There's even some legitimate concerns within the gripe. It is, however, an old gripe, which dates back to before the internet ('round about 1st Edition). Back on topic a little...love 'em or hate 'em, very few games actually deal with IEs. Or the CEOs of AAA megacorps, or the Head of State of any given country, etcetra. Hell, as far as the runner on the street is concerned, the IEs might as well not exist. Just another trid legend, like JetBlack and Elvis on the mothership. You shouldn't let the IEs run your game. For the Tirs, the IEs are a powerful influence, but there are millions of other pointy-ears in the Elf Lands. Don't feel constrained by their personality types. |
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Jun 8 2007, 02:10 AM
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#37
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,838 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,669 |
My copy of Street Magic says you're wrong.
You do realize that my Battletech line was a joke, right? The little smiley-with-tongue thing and all that... |
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Jun 8 2007, 02:15 AM
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#38
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
Oops. Moment of Previous Edition Brain. So sorry. |
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Jun 8 2007, 02:16 AM
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#39
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,451 Joined: 21-April 03 From: Austin, TX Member No.: 4,488 |
Personally, I love the Harlequin adventure and have been dying to run it. I really like all the magical metaplot stuff. The techier stuff I could take or leave (which is odd since when I play, I tend to go for a decker...yes, DECKer, I haven't played 4th Ed yet) like Archology and Deus, but I totally love the IE and dragon stuff.
But that's why Shadowrun's so great. I can have my game and you can have yours. I can have my super-metaplot-based-epic-proportions-game and you can have your street-level-not-much-better-than-common-thugs game. I can have my magic-heavy-fighting-blood-mages-and-bug-spirits game and you can have your underworld-mafia-street-wars game. The Abstruse One |
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Jun 8 2007, 02:51 AM
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#40
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
Hey, I combined Metahuman Form, Infestation, Animal Form, and the Master Shedim flavor text into the Realistic Form power for a reason. The older versions were... overly complicated on that point. :P -Frank |
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Jun 9 2007, 01:32 AM
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#41
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Shooting Target Group: Validating Posts: 1,618 Joined: 29-January 03 From: Montevideo, Uruguay. Member No.: 3,992 |
Blood Wood, located in ancient Ukraine, was also known as Wyrm Wood. There's a modern-day Wyrm Wood too, known to us as Chernobyl. Food for thought. EDIT: It appears that the actual facts differ, but I'll go with the gaming-friendly legend any day of the week when it comes to my campaign. :grinbig: "When the legend becomes fact, print the legend." -- The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (1962). This post has been edited by JongWK: Jun 9 2007, 04:08 PM |
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Jun 9 2007, 03:02 AM
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#42
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,328 Joined: 2-April 07 From: The Center of the Universe Member No.: 11,360 |
<<I could point out that half or more of the reason isreal has survived as a nation is the fact that their economy is almost entirely based on wealth pouring in from a bigger 'Patron' nation... namely the US. >> Actually the US did not get heavily involved until the 1960's. Before that it was the French and the British that supported Isreal. Another factor is the incompetence of their adversaries. Their governments are corrupt as all hell, (one of the issues the US is facing in Iraq). As to their economy, they've got tourism, and a viable defense industry (after the French and British left them high and dry, they don't trust anyone but themselves to their defense. They know US aid could be suspended at any point. |
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