Craft Katana, wondering what skills are most correct Options

[WearzManySkins]

I am wondering what skills and the target number and time interval it would take to craft a Katana.

Intricate Item 12
time week

Skills, from the example I am guessing Armorer skill and Logic attribute.

Any input?

WMS

[laughingowl]

Hmm,

'Traditional'

Threshold (I presume you meant) 12 sounds about right, though I would go with 1 month interval.


I relying on modern composite 'steel' bar to start with and merely shaping it, then say same threshold but interval 1 day to 1 week.

The vast majority of the time making a kantna was the 'folding' process to work carbon into the steel to make up for poor quality steel.

If you already have a superior 'bar' then a few days is very reasonable for a skilled armorer to shape a blade and polish it.

If you have 'junk' iron and are purifying it / carbonizing it, and then shaping it into a blade internval of a month.

(so depends if they can buy a bar of alloy, then I would go with days interval, if they are salvaging 'iron' from the local junk yard, then months interval. (or more accurately threshold 12 interval month, test to 'purify' and form the base bar to make the blade. Then a threshold 12, interval 1 day, to shape the blade and attach handle.))

[WearzManySkins]

well since at a threshold of 12 it will take it 60 dice worth at buying successes to get it done in one week. Using statical dice rolls(which I never get :( ) it will take 36 dice.

So unless one has a very skilled katana crafter, it will take at least 2 weeks if not longer.

No I am meaning to use in the example superior steel and then the folding, which does do more than upgrade inferior steel.

Laughingowl, are the skills and attributes the most correct ones?

WMS

[Lagomorph]

I think the skills are good, you could also use artisan-sword crafting(katanas) too.

[Ravor]

Yeah but would a sword made using the Artisan skill be combat ready or just a cemerimonal blade?

[Demerzel]

The Master Swordsmith Masamune was definately an artisan and not a mere armorer.

I would make it a two step process, the first step would be preparing the steel (The folding, and the basic form) using Armorer, the second would be the crafting of the blade (The parts that are more art than science, like balance etc.) using Artisan.

[hyzmarca]

I'd actually make it a three-step process with three different specializations, shaping, hardening, and polishing.

The hardening test would only take a few minutes but a failure would ruin the shaped blade.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

By the RAW, it's only twofold:

The Armorer Test determines if it's a usable weapon.
The Artisan Test determines how pretty it is.

The latter part really is optional - ugly weapons still kill. :P

[WearzManySkins]

Hmm interesting inputs....

First Step Shaping the Steel, Threshold 12, week, Armorer
Second Step Hardening, Threshold 12, hour, Armorer
Third Step, Polishing, Threshold, 12, week, Artisan

I prefer the 3 steps rather than the two steps.

One more question, would a Mentor Spirit like Artificer add any extra dice, if the katana is going to be a virgin Telesma?

Thanks to all for your inputs.

WMS

[odinson]

Wouldn't it be easier to take the high quality steel and throw it in a lathe and have your computer cut a sword out of it? I guess you would probably need a facility to have all the fancy lathes but wouldn't that just make it one armorer test?

[WearzManySkins]

Easier yes, but the lathe would not fold the steel. Basically the lathe could carve out the shape of the blade, even carve out an edge, but its appearance.......

WMS

[Rotbart van Dain...]

..would be pretty decent. I have handled blades that were created that way and they looked pretty much perfect (perhaps a bit 'too'). Even forged blades are trimmed down until they look nice.

At the end of the day, the only thing that counts are the material properties of the steel(s) used (and the hardening zones) - and while traditional katana are a piece of art, the reason for the complicated process was that the steel was pretty bad.
Today, buying a good carbon steel katana from Hanwei or the like will give you a blade that is pretty much indestructible in a fight and will cut deep. (see MythBusters)

[WearzManySkins]

Interesting Hanwei uses three different types of steel. But look at this blade from his selection

"Each piece in the Kami group has a hand-forged and folded ASSAB-K120C powder steel blade, differentially tempered to produce an HRC60 edge, HRC40 back and a distinctive hamon.."

Due the combining of the three steels, even these blades are folded.

Which episode of Mythbusters are you referring to? I have seen the one where they test the hands clapping together to stop a downward sword strike.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Hanwei produces mono-steel swords, too. ;)

The recent MythBusters Film features the myth of cutting the enemys blade with your own... which is subsequently busted.

[WearzManySkins]

Well IIRC it was ancient Japanese legend that a Bo Staff master "Could" break katanas using a Bo Staff. Again according to legend, he created the "Jo Staff" to fight a samurai who used two swords.

A sword could break another sword if the sword that was broken had a flaw or defect.

WMS

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Indeed, breaking swords is stuff for legends and severe material defects. ;)

[hyzmarca]

Actually, breaking swords is easy. It is cutting swords that is impossible. I might just get a copy of that Mythbusters and youtube a couple of the slow-mo videos but a katana swung by someone who knows how to use it will annihilate a rapier while a claymore will break a katana. When a big sword hit a smaller sword at full speed the small sword will bend and snap. And a real katana will break a stainless steel crap-piece.

ASSAB K-120C is one type of steel, I believe.

An hour is a bit long for the hardening process and 12 is a bit high. It basically involves coating the blade with heat-resistant clay, except for the edge, heating it up until the edge has the right color, and then quenching it in water.

It isn't something that should be an extended test, either. You only get one-shot at hardening a blade like this. If you mess up the blade is ruined and you have no coice but to start over.

And the Mythbisters episode is the special feature-length movie episode.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

[WearzManySkins]

OK modified

First Step Shaping the Steel, Threshold 12, week, Armorer
Second Step Hardening, 3, half hour, Armorer, If you do not get 3 successes hardening fails, katana ruined begin all over.
Third Step, Polishing, Threshold, 12, week, Artisan

No answer to my question on if Mentor spirit's dice would add to any of the tests.

Please no Thread Jacking, take the katana versus everything else to another/your own thread. :)

[Ravor]

My answer would be no, you don't get the extra dice because forging the blade isn't an Enchanting Test. It's an Armorer Test with an Artisan Test tacked on if the crafter wants the sword to be pretty as well as deadly.

[hyzmarca]

Actually, polishing a katana is necessary to make it deadly because the polishing process is also the sharpening process. It is also traditionally handled by an expert who does nothing but polishing, rather than the swordsmith himself.

[Ravor]

Then it should also be an Armorer Test.

[WearzManySkins]

Ok take the middle ground then

First Step Shaping the Steel, Threshold 12, week, Armorer+Artisan
Second Step Hardening, 3, half hour, Armorer+Artisan, If you do not get 3 successes hardening fails, katana ruined begin all over.
Third Step, Polishing, Threshold, 12, week, Artisan+Artisan

[hyzmarca]

There is also the issue of equipment. The folding required for a traditional katana cannot reasonably be accomplished by a single guy with a hammer in one hand and the steel in another. Traditionally, a swordsmith would have his underpaid apprentices wield sledgehammers. Today, and automatic hammer is an acceptable substitute, though it might interfere with enchantment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9ofKvsMDgc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_JcP0AASFw...related&search=

[WearzManySkins]