 Neo Anti-Magical Luddites, Do they exsist? |
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 Jun 13 2007, 03:57 AM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 289 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,625  |
I'm looking for an organisation that is against the use of magic. Similar to luddites, or atleast similar to what most people think of luddites, they think the use of magic reduces the dignity of meta-humanity and/or that it's a tool used by magical elitists to opress the mundane community and so on. I've got a group with no mages and rather than force someone to play a mage I thought it would be interesting to see if I could work up some scenarios where such a group would 'make sense'.
I'm wondering if such a group exsists allready in SR, and if not, all the reasons such a group would be a bad idea (or good idea, but I know how forums work). Failing that, what else do people think could work? I'm also thinking along the lines of MrJ being magical threat X and doesn't want to risk being spotted. |
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Jun 13 2007, 04:38 AM
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#2
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,180 Joined: 22-January 07 From: Rochester, NY Member No.: 10,737 |
Extremist religious groups work really well.
And:
Ah, fundamentalists... I so love them; their minds are so dense that it can take an APDS to open them. (not that I'm advocating anything, mind you...) Hmmm... Makes me wonder what would have happened, in the SR timeline, to my favorite religious bogeymen, Fred Phelps and his "church" of hate-mongers. Anyway, getting back on topic, a religious group will work nicely if you're looking for a group that will object to magic and its use on principle. Of course, there are also hate groups of various sorts; there's a hate group member contact detailed in the GM screen book that mentions the full gamut of various hate groups. However, I haven't seen a detailed dossier on an anti-Awakened group--at least one that I can recall at the moment--in any of the sourcebooks that I've gotten my hands on, which means that you'd be starting from scratch, which has its advantages and disadvantages. |
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Jun 13 2007, 07:04 AM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 289 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,625 |
Religious Fundamentalists are a little too broad in their hatred for my purposes I think. Guess that means I need to make one up, eh, work.
"No I wasn't being lazy with the write-up! They're MEANT to be mysterious..." |
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Jun 13 2007, 07:36 AM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 181 Joined: 29-March 07 Member No.: 11,342 |
My answer in spoilers :)
[ Spoiler ]
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Jun 13 2007, 06:17 PM
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#5
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Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
Well personally I've always had both Phelps and that annoying Rand fellow Awaken, unless I'm planning on using Phelps he usually gets strung up by his followers.
Rand on the other hand usually throws himself full bore into Magical Research and gets some basic principle of magic named after himself. |
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Jun 14 2007, 02:34 AM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 749 Joined: 28-July 05 Member No.: 7,526 |
That's what I did for my anti-awakened game here - Witch Hunt |
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Jun 14 2007, 05:17 AM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 289 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,625 |
Interesting stuff, thanks for that.
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Jun 14 2007, 08:25 AM
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#8
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,286 Joined: 24-May 05 From: A 10x10 room with an orc and a treasure chest Member No.: 7,409 |
There was a group in Bug City called the Volk. They were anti-magic and anti-metahuman, attacking magicans and metahumans as fast as they would a bug. Some of them could have gotten out in your campaign.
Kenneth Brackhaven's people are anti-magic as well as anti-metahuman. Blaiming both groups for basically all the world's ills. |
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Jun 14 2007, 08:37 AM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 181 Joined: 29-March 07 Member No.: 11,342 |
An anti magic group would ultimately be anti metahuman : after all metahumans are born of magic in some way or another, the "worst" magic users (as far as general public knows) are elves and dragons.
If such a group existed, they would be dead if they didnt have much back up. So necessarely they would be ultimately the pawns of some powerfull figure or organisation. See spoilers for some speculations : [ Spoiler ]
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Jun 14 2007, 02:24 PM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 693 Joined: 26-March 03 Member No.: 4,335 |
Chickites!
Following the teachings of their founder, Jack Chick, they have gone to great trouble to fight the corrupting influence of magic among the UCAS youth. Remember kids, magic is a trap that will lead to enslavment, depression, suicide, and endanger your soul. What? :] |
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Jun 14 2007, 03:34 PM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 749 Joined: 28-July 05 Member No.: 7,526 |
I disagree. I think it's very plausible that a group could hate sorcerers, conjurers, and their ilk but be perfectly accepting of trolls and elves. For one thing, metahumans are Natural. Their existence may have been brought on by magic, but their condition is genetic; their differences are biological. In 2070 we have a pretty darn good understanding of biology. Magic, on the other hand, is the exact opposite of Nature. Magicians do scary shit. They can read your mind. They can alter your mind. They can spy on you in the shower. They make deals with beings from other dimensions. Know what happens when that kind of thing goes unchecked? Chicago.
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Jun 15 2007, 08:19 AM
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#12
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 181 Joined: 29-March 07 Member No.: 11,342 |
You got a point 2bit, at least arguments.
But who would be interested in the existance of such a group ? I mean the average Joe could, and would join if the right circumstances. But the group wouldnt last long : if they condemn magic and make violent actions, sooner or later, a good mage will come to them and show them the meaning of power ... Unless they have back up ... and that backup would ultimately be supported by some kind of mage group. After all there are two ways to be the msot powerfull mage : become the best with hard work, or kill all other pretenders ... |
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Jun 15 2007, 12:27 PM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 289 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,625 |
I don't get what you're saying.
A group like this wouldn't exsist, but if it did, magical beings would go out of their way to prove them right, by attacking them? If you believe magical groups are behind everything, that in itself is the ideal justification for an anti-magical group. At this point I'm thinking a Mark Koernke/Militia Movement/New World Order Conspiracy type thing, except that instead of the rich and powerful conspiring with the government to restrict personal freedoms and so on, it's Magical forces conspiring. And they fly around at night in black unmarked dragons... |
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Jun 15 2007, 12:48 PM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 181 Joined: 29-March 07 Member No.: 11,342 |
Excellent Duck :)
But face it : an organisation without magical backup is doomed one way or another : no group of influence can live without magic or technology in Shadowrun. Especialy if they try being violent ... take an average full magician runner. Dont you think he could wipe out allmost anything without magical protection ? Just with spirits alone he could do it. So if the group was violent, it would face heavy opposition and would get wiped out. If it wasnt violent, then i doubt he'd have a lot of adepts, and even, when you create a group against something, frustrations will arise (especialy versus something they'll never be able to fight) and so wiolence will begin. Once they hit the wrong person (average joe runner mage) they'll have some problems. I dont see how they could slip past the vigilence of groups that benefits from magic. So if they are powerfull they'll have to face them, and loose since those magical groups also have heavy mundane power. It's not the big conspiracy, its just logical in my eyes that they wont make it unless they have some heavy backup. Look at the metahuman hate groups : Lofwyr has some, Alamaise have some too, and to me they dont look human at all. The same would be for mage hate groups they'll need some kind of patronage ... |
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Jun 15 2007, 01:11 PM
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#15
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Riggers say "no". In one-on-one no-holds-barred duels to the death by well-equipped Shadowrunners, a Rigger-vs-Mage duel is usually decided by who locates the other first. ~J |
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Jun 15 2007, 01:38 PM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 181 Joined: 29-March 07 Member No.: 11,342 |
Of course :) I dont want to have a debate on who's the strongest, its not the point. I'm assuming the mage is planning and attacking in witch case he'll have the surprise element and will toast everyone since they dont have magical defenses. I'm talking a decent mage versus a bunch of loonies that wants to kill some mages KKK style ... They could do it a few times but would eventualy end up dead soon. |
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Jun 15 2007, 05:20 PM
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#17
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 289 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,625 |
I geuss, but thre are ways to deal with that.
For example, they simply don't take overt action. If one of the anti-government militia actually attempted to do something significant against the goverment they'd be quashed pretty quickly, but most groups (even the KKK) refrain from direct action and instead persue a perpetual agenda of preparation "for the coming conflict". They are waiting for their opponents, real or imagined, to make the first move, so that they'll have public support. If their enemies are real, if they are considered just a collection of loonies, they'll be ignored, because they don't want to give them any legitimacy. They could exsist like this for some time, and it doesn't stop them from hiring runners to perform tasks such as aquiring information or even high end anti-magic tech (FAB Strain IV?). There are also plenty of people/organisations/things who weild powerer in the sixth world who don't use magic, and if they can't control it and use it, why not destroy it? I've personally never been a fan of the idea that tech simply cant match magic. And ultimately, I want to avoid the 'anti-something organisation is actually controlled by the the thing their against' cliche. |
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Jun 15 2007, 07:27 PM
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#18
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
they could also simply lobby for more stringent licensing procedures, tougher penalties for magical crimes, increased funding for anti-talismuggling efforts, and so on. behind the scenes, they could stage magical incidents that "prove" mages can't be trusted.
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Jun 15 2007, 10:18 PM
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#19
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
Magic is a dangerous and anti-egalitarian force. Those working against it need not be power-mad psychopaths nor intolerant madmen. Those with a clear eye could quite logically come to the conclusin that the world would be a better place with no Magic in it. Life went on for thousands of years without Sorcery and it can go on without sorcery for thousands more.
That being said, magic is also a very difficult force to fight against, since those who have it are extremely dangerous and not normally distinguishable from those without save with Magic. And while that may lead many anti-magic idealists into making some sort of devil's bargain with powerful spirits or whatever to drive magicians away, that is clearly a fool's game. Compromising one's values is never a good plan in the long run whatever silver it may purchase today. No, it is well established that there are things that damage Magic. Not just the good old standby of "if you shoot a magician in the face he can't use magic any more" - but in fact methods to damage magic as a whole. Namely, radiation and other "toxins". Heavy metal poisoning is quite treatable in 2070. But background counts are also quite effective in diminishing, even eliminating, the taint of magic. It is quite conceivable therefore to irradiate the planet such that magic as a whole goes away, returning life to the pristine state it had in the previous century where magic could not interfere with the freedom of mankind to think for themselves. -Frank |
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Jun 15 2007, 10:22 PM
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#20
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Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
:eek: :love: Consider that stolen FrankTrollman. :cyber:
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Jun 16 2007, 12:51 AM
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#21
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...hmm... Better Magic Free Living Through Chmistry and Radiation".
...has a kind of a nostalgic ring to it. :grinbig: |
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Jun 16 2007, 12:52 AM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 511 Joined: 24-March 05 From: On a ledge between Heaven and Hell Member No.: 7,226 |
I have a player that would love this group. To bad his Argumentative Logic sucks.
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Jun 20 2007, 04:33 PM
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#23
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 946 Joined: 16-September 05 From: London Member No.: 7,753 |
Hi,
I guess it depends on how common Magic is in your SR.. ..If it's rare, then many people might be scared of anyone who uses Magic, or anything of a Magical nature. ..If Magic is common [as it appears to be], people would have to actively choose to be anti-Magic. If survivalists, communes, Moonies, the Amish, Flat Worlders etc can exist and survive with their beliefs and behaviour, anti-Magic groups shouldn't be too hard to have. Alternatively, if you tweak the rules, spell-like effects could be the result of various methods - Magical spells, religious blessings/curses. psychic powers. In such a case, each group might be antagonistic to the others. Just my thruppence.. |
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Jun 24 2007, 08:59 AM
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#24
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 289 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,625 |
Following up on FrankTrollman's idea of using pollution to hurt magic, I stumbled across MADS (Mana-active Aura Deficiency Syndrome) in Target: Wastelands, and had the idea that the first job was going to be stealing the samples and research from a company trying to find a cure for it.
Then a player decided he would sink a few points into being a mage on top of his current duties because he didn't like the idea of noone being a mage. This is the groups decker. Oh well, I guess he might just get infected if he decides to open the canister. |
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