I'm looking for an organisation that is against the use of magic. Similar to luddites, or atleast similar to what most people think of luddites, they think the use of magic reduces the dignity of meta-humanity and/or that it's a tool used by magical elitists to opress the mundane community and so on. I've got a group with no mages and rather than force someone to play a mage I thought it would be interesting to see if I could work up some scenarios where such a group would 'make sense'.
I'm wondering if such a group exsists allready in SR, and if not, all the reasons such a group would be a bad idea (or good idea, but I know how forums work).
Failing that, what else do people think could work? I'm also thinking along the lines of MrJ being magical threat X and doesn't want to risk being spotted.
Full Version: Neo Anti-Magical Luddites
Extremist religious groups work really well.
| QUOTE (Street Magic pg 15) |
| CHRISTIANITY Most Christian churches followed Rome’s lead, accepting magic to at least some degree and incorporating it into their doctrines and practices. The Catholics, though they accept the existence and practice of magic, declared that some practices such as conjuring touch on so many questions of faith and doctrine that church members may not practice them without permission. Some, like the Methodists and Unitarians, took a more liberal view, embracing magic and the good works it could enable. Only the most rigidly fundamentalist of Christian denominations (including more than a few evangelicals) completely resisted magic and all of its trappings. |
And:
| QUOTE |
ISLAM The way in which Muslims view magic depends upon which sect a believer belongs to. Largely, Islam reluctantly accepts magic, and its scholars spend much time studying it and its manifestations. The exception is the more conservative factions of both the Shi’ite and Sunni sects (including the Wahhabis), which maintain that the Qu’ran strictly forbids the practice of magic—in fact, it is a capital crime to do so in many areas these groups control. |
Ah, fundamentalists... I so love them; their minds are so dense that it can take an APDS to open them. (not that I'm advocating anything, mind you...)
Hmmm... Makes me wonder what would have happened, in the SR timeline, to my favorite religious bogeymen, Fred Phelps and his "church" of hate-mongers.
Anyway, getting back on topic, a religious group will work nicely if you're looking for a group that will object to magic and its use on principle. Of course, there are also hate groups of various sorts; there's a hate group member contact detailed in the GM screen book that mentions the full gamut of various hate groups. However, I haven't seen a detailed dossier on an anti-Awakened group--at least one that I can recall at the moment--in any of the sourcebooks that I've gotten my hands on, which means that you'd be starting from scratch, which has its advantages and disadvantages.
Religious Fundamentalists are a little too broad in their hatred for my purposes I think. Guess that means I need to make one up, eh, work.
"No I wasn't being lazy with the write-up! They're MEANT to be mysterious..."
"No I wasn't being lazy with the write-up! They're MEANT to be mysterious..."
My answer in spoilers 
[ Spoiler ]
Well personally I've always had both Phelps and that annoying Rand fellow Awaken, unless I'm planning on using Phelps he usually gets strung up by his followers.
Rand on the other hand usually throws himself full bore into Magical Research and gets some basic principle of magic named after himself.
Rand on the other hand usually throws himself full bore into Magical Research and gets some basic principle of magic named after himself.
| QUOTE (DuckEggBlue Omega) |
| Religious Fundamentalists are a little too broad in their hatred for my purposes I think. Guess that means I need to make one up, eh, work. "No I wasn't being lazy with the write-up! They're MEANT to be mysterious..." |
That's what I did for my anti-awakened game here - Witch Hunt
Interesting stuff, thanks for that.
There was a group in Bug City called the Volk. They were anti-magic and anti-metahuman, attacking magicans and metahumans as fast as they would a bug. Some of them could have gotten out in your campaign.
Kenneth Brackhaven's people are anti-magic as well as anti-metahuman. Blaiming both groups for basically all the world's ills.
Kenneth Brackhaven's people are anti-magic as well as anti-metahuman. Blaiming both groups for basically all the world's ills.
An anti magic group would ultimately be anti metahuman : after all metahumans are born of magic in some way or another, the "worst" magic users (as far as general public knows) are elves and dragons.
If such a group existed, they would be dead if they didnt have much back up.
So necessarely they would be ultimately the pawns of some powerfull figure or organisation.
See spoilers for some speculations :
If such a group existed, they would be dead if they didnt have much back up.
So necessarely they would be ultimately the pawns of some powerfull figure or organisation.
See spoilers for some speculations :
[ Spoiler ]
Chickites!
Following the teachings of their founder, Jack Chick, they have gone to great trouble to fight the corrupting influence of magic among the UCAS youth. Remember kids, magic is a trap that will lead to enslavment, depression, suicide, and endanger your soul.
What?
Following the teachings of their founder, Jack Chick, they have gone to great trouble to fight the corrupting influence of magic among the UCAS youth. Remember kids, magic is a trap that will lead to enslavment, depression, suicide, and endanger your soul.
What?
| QUOTE |
| An anti magic group would ultimately be anti metahuman : after all metahumans are born of magic in some way or another, the "worst" magic users (as far as general public knows) are elves and dragons. |
I disagree. I think it's very plausible that a group could hate sorcerers, conjurers, and their ilk but be perfectly accepting of trolls and elves. For one thing, metahumans are Natural. Their existence may have been brought on by magic, but their condition is genetic; their differences are biological. In 2070 we have a pretty darn good understanding of biology. Magic, on the other hand, is the exact opposite of Nature. Magicians do scary shit. They can read your mind. They can alter your mind. They can spy on you in the shower. They make deals with beings from other dimensions. Know what happens when that kind of thing goes unchecked? Chicago.
You got a point 2bit, at least arguments.
But who would be interested in the existance of such a group ?
I mean the average Joe could, and would join if the right circumstances.
But the group wouldnt last long : if they condemn magic and make violent actions, sooner or later, a good mage will come to them and show them the meaning of power ...
Unless they have back up ... and that backup would ultimately be supported by some kind of mage group.
After all there are two ways to be the msot powerfull mage : become the best with hard work, or kill all other pretenders ...
But who would be interested in the existance of such a group ?
I mean the average Joe could, and would join if the right circumstances.
But the group wouldnt last long : if they condemn magic and make violent actions, sooner or later, a good mage will come to them and show them the meaning of power ...
Unless they have back up ... and that backup would ultimately be supported by some kind of mage group.
After all there are two ways to be the msot powerfull mage : become the best with hard work, or kill all other pretenders ...
I don't get what you're saying.
A group like this wouldn't exsist, but if it did, magical beings would go out of their way to prove them right, by attacking them?
If you believe magical groups are behind everything, that in itself is the ideal justification for an anti-magical group. At this point I'm thinking a Mark Koernke/Militia Movement/New World Order Conspiracy type thing, except that instead of the rich and powerful conspiring with the government to restrict personal freedoms and so on, it's Magical forces conspiring.
And they fly around at night in black unmarked dragons...
A group like this wouldn't exsist, but if it did, magical beings would go out of their way to prove them right, by attacking them?
If you believe magical groups are behind everything, that in itself is the ideal justification for an anti-magical group. At this point I'm thinking a Mark Koernke/Militia Movement/New World Order Conspiracy type thing, except that instead of the rich and powerful conspiring with the government to restrict personal freedoms and so on, it's Magical forces conspiring.
And they fly around at night in black unmarked dragons...
Excellent Duck
But face it : an organisation without magical backup is doomed one way or another : no group of influence can live without magic or technology in Shadowrun.
Especialy if they try being violent ... take an average full magician runner. Dont you think he could wipe out allmost anything without magical protection ?
Just with spirits alone he could do it.
So if the group was violent, it would face heavy opposition and would get wiped out.
If it wasnt violent, then i doubt he'd have a lot of adepts, and even, when you create a group against something, frustrations will arise (especialy versus something they'll never be able to fight) and so wiolence will begin.
Once they hit the wrong person (average joe runner mage) they'll have some problems.
I dont see how they could slip past the vigilence of groups that benefits from magic.
So if they are powerfull they'll have to face them, and loose since those magical groups also have heavy mundane power.
It's not the big conspiracy, its just logical in my eyes that they wont make it unless they have some heavy backup.
Look at the metahuman hate groups : Lofwyr has some, Alamaise have some too, and to me they dont look human at all. The same would be for mage hate groups they'll need some kind of patronage ...
But face it : an organisation without magical backup is doomed one way or another : no group of influence can live without magic or technology in Shadowrun.
Especialy if they try being violent ... take an average full magician runner. Dont you think he could wipe out allmost anything without magical protection ?
Just with spirits alone he could do it.
So if the group was violent, it would face heavy opposition and would get wiped out.
If it wasnt violent, then i doubt he'd have a lot of adepts, and even, when you create a group against something, frustrations will arise (especialy versus something they'll never be able to fight) and so wiolence will begin.
Once they hit the wrong person (average joe runner mage) they'll have some problems.
I dont see how they could slip past the vigilence of groups that benefits from magic.
So if they are powerfull they'll have to face them, and loose since those magical groups also have heavy mundane power.
It's not the big conspiracy, its just logical in my eyes that they wont make it unless they have some heavy backup.
Look at the metahuman hate groups : Lofwyr has some, Alamaise have some too, and to me they dont look human at all. The same would be for mage hate groups they'll need some kind of patronage ...
| QUOTE (treehugger) |
| Especialy if they try being violent ... take an average full magician runner. Dont you think he could wipe out allmost anything without magical protection ? Just with spirits alone he could do it. |
Riggers say "no". In one-on-one no-holds-barred duels to the death by well-equipped Shadowrunners, a Rigger-vs-Mage duel is usually decided by who locates the other first.
~J
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
| Riggers say "no". In one-on-one no-holds-barred duels to the death by well-equipped Shadowrunners, a Rigger-vs-Mage duel is usually decided by who locates the other first. ~J |
Of course
I dont want to have a debate on who's the strongest, its not the point.
I'm assuming the mage is planning and attacking in witch case he'll have the surprise element and will toast everyone since they dont have magical defenses.
I'm talking a decent mage versus a bunch of loonies that wants to kill some mages KKK style ...
They could do it a few times but would eventualy end up dead soon.
I geuss, but thre are ways to deal with that.
For example, they simply don't take overt action. If one of the anti-government militia actually attempted to do something significant against the goverment they'd be quashed pretty quickly, but most groups (even the KKK) refrain from direct action and instead persue a perpetual agenda of preparation "for the coming conflict". They are waiting for their opponents, real or imagined, to make the first move, so that they'll have public support. If their enemies are real, if they are considered just a collection of loonies, they'll be ignored, because they don't want to give them any legitimacy. They could exsist like this for some time, and it doesn't stop them from hiring runners to perform tasks such as aquiring information or even high end anti-magic tech (FAB Strain IV?).
There are also plenty of people/organisations/things who weild powerer in the sixth world who don't use magic, and if they can't control it and use it, why not destroy it? I've personally never been a fan of the idea that tech simply cant match magic.
And ultimately, I want to avoid the 'anti-something organisation is actually controlled by the the thing their against' cliche.
For example, they simply don't take overt action. If one of the anti-government militia actually attempted to do something significant against the goverment they'd be quashed pretty quickly, but most groups (even the KKK) refrain from direct action and instead persue a perpetual agenda of preparation "for the coming conflict". They are waiting for their opponents, real or imagined, to make the first move, so that they'll have public support. If their enemies are real, if they are considered just a collection of loonies, they'll be ignored, because they don't want to give them any legitimacy. They could exsist like this for some time, and it doesn't stop them from hiring runners to perform tasks such as aquiring information or even high end anti-magic tech (FAB Strain IV?).
There are also plenty of people/organisations/things who weild powerer in the sixth world who don't use magic, and if they can't control it and use it, why not destroy it? I've personally never been a fan of the idea that tech simply cant match magic.
And ultimately, I want to avoid the 'anti-something organisation is actually controlled by the the thing their against' cliche.
they could also simply lobby for more stringent licensing procedures, tougher penalties for magical crimes, increased funding for anti-talismuggling efforts, and so on. behind the scenes, they could stage magical incidents that "prove" mages can't be trusted.
Magic is a dangerous and anti-egalitarian force. Those working against it need not be power-mad psychopaths nor intolerant madmen. Those with a clear eye could quite logically come to the conclusin that the world would be a better place with no Magic in it. Life went on for thousands of years without Sorcery and it can go on without sorcery for thousands more.
That being said, magic is also a very difficult force to fight against, since those who have it are extremely dangerous and not normally distinguishable from those without save with Magic. And while that may lead many anti-magic idealists into making some sort of devil's bargain with powerful spirits or whatever to drive magicians away, that is clearly a fool's game. Compromising one's values is never a good plan in the long run whatever silver it may purchase today.
No, it is well established that there are things that damage Magic. Not just the good old standby of "if you shoot a magician in the face he can't use magic any more" - but in fact methods to damage magic as a whole. Namely, radiation and other "toxins".
Heavy metal poisoning is quite treatable in 2070. But background counts are also quite effective in diminishing, even eliminating, the taint of magic. It is quite conceivable therefore to irradiate the planet such that magic as a whole goes away, returning life to the pristine state it had in the previous century where magic could not interfere with the freedom of mankind to think for themselves.
-Frank
That being said, magic is also a very difficult force to fight against, since those who have it are extremely dangerous and not normally distinguishable from those without save with Magic. And while that may lead many anti-magic idealists into making some sort of devil's bargain with powerful spirits or whatever to drive magicians away, that is clearly a fool's game. Compromising one's values is never a good plan in the long run whatever silver it may purchase today.
No, it is well established that there are things that damage Magic. Not just the good old standby of "if you shoot a magician in the face he can't use magic any more" - but in fact methods to damage magic as a whole. Namely, radiation and other "toxins".
Heavy metal poisoning is quite treatable in 2070. But background counts are also quite effective in diminishing, even eliminating, the taint of magic. It is quite conceivable therefore to irradiate the planet such that magic as a whole goes away, returning life to the pristine state it had in the previous century where magic could not interfere with the freedom of mankind to think for themselves.
-Frank
Consider that stolen FrankTrollman. 
...hmm... Better Magic Free Living Through Chmistry and Radiation".
...has a kind of a nostalgic ring to it.
...has a kind of a nostalgic ring to it.
I have a player that would love this group. To bad his Argumentative Logic sucks.
Hi,
I guess it depends on how common Magic is in your SR..
..If it's rare, then many people might be scared of anyone who uses Magic, or anything of a Magical nature.
..If Magic is common [as it appears to be], people would have to actively choose to be anti-Magic.
If survivalists, communes, Moonies, the Amish, Flat Worlders etc can exist and survive with their beliefs and behaviour, anti-Magic groups shouldn't be too hard to have.
Alternatively, if you tweak the rules, spell-like effects could be the result of various methods - Magical spells, religious blessings/curses. psychic powers.
In such a case, each group might be antagonistic to the others.
Just my thruppence..
I guess it depends on how common Magic is in your SR..
..If it's rare, then many people might be scared of anyone who uses Magic, or anything of a Magical nature.
..If Magic is common [as it appears to be], people would have to actively choose to be anti-Magic.
If survivalists, communes, Moonies, the Amish, Flat Worlders etc can exist and survive with their beliefs and behaviour, anti-Magic groups shouldn't be too hard to have.
Alternatively, if you tweak the rules, spell-like effects could be the result of various methods - Magical spells, religious blessings/curses. psychic powers.
In such a case, each group might be antagonistic to the others.
Just my thruppence..
Following up on FrankTrollman's idea of using pollution to hurt magic, I stumbled across MADS (Mana-active Aura Deficiency Syndrome) in Target: Wastelands, and had the idea that the first job was going to be stealing the samples and research from a company trying to find a cure for it.
Then a player decided he would sink a few points into being a mage on top of his current duties because he didn't like the idea of noone being a mage. This is the groups decker.
Oh well, I guess he might just get infected if he decides to open the canister.
Then a player decided he would sink a few points into being a mage on top of his current duties because he didn't like the idea of noone being a mage. This is the groups decker.
Oh well, I guess he might just get infected if he decides to open the canister.
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