Does anyone even use mortars in their games?, ...Or in any modern-type game? Options

[Phaeton]

I mean, they are somewhat useless. Their ammo's availability in SR is deadly high. :( And I can't even find any mortars in the Wordman list. :S

Other than that...

...^topic^

[Siege]

In the "typical" SR game? Probably not -- too many obstacles to properly deliver mortar rounds, although a 40mm grenade launcher will do well in a pinch.

If the PCs have connections to military grade weapons and routinely do some heavy firepower missions, then maybe. Ambushing a wilderness compound is about the only time this kind of weapon would see deployment.

Or a military-style campaign, I suppose.

-Siege

[Namer18]

Yes. Now mind you I would vote for half of the members of the group being psychotic. But there's nothing to close down a street like someone raining white phosphorous mortars down on it.

[Kagetenshi]

They're rarely used, but now and again they do have their uses. Nothing like a mortar-drone for causing a little chaos.

~J

[Kurukami]

True. If you want to cause a sizeable distraction at one end of a corporate compound while doing your best to get in and avoid the security presence...

[Adarael]

My Merc uses his mortal all the time. Of course, he and his crew generally operate in Africa and southeast asia, where blowing the unholy hell out of things won't get you shot by Lone Star, just the opposing army.

Good for mercs. Bad for shadowrunners.

[easytohate]

I used them just recently in the last game... someone decided it would be fun to litter the local urban brawl field with shells.

[Kagetenshi]

Good for Shadowrunners too. Creating all sorts of unholy mil-grade Hell can work wonders on your way out. Just bad on your way in.

~J

[Rock-Steady]

One of my chars has aquired one together with another player's char but we never got the opportunity to use it.

[FlakJacket]

We've used them in the past. Most memorable instance was using a homing round - tracking a beam from a laser designator embedded in the spotter's cybereye - to take out a corporate executive whilst travelling in his armoured limousine along the street.

[CeaDawg]

I have a couple of facilities in my game that use mortar installations as part of their site security. There have also been a couple of instances where the players have used them, both in a jungle setting and in an urban setting. Mortars are useful in both settings because of their high arc of fire. It makes it much easier to hit targets on the far side of buildings, walls, or other obstacles to direct/LOS fire.
I've spoken to my father, a former Marine who served on a special weapons mortar crew, and several other mortarmen with experience in various real world conflicts about this. According to them, Beirut, Warsaw, and Phenom Phen are all excellent models for employment of mortars. Small mortars, 39mm to 87mm, mounted in the back of a delivery van that has a "moon roof" opening have been used extensively in Beirut over the years. They provide fast mobile fire support for any size team that needs to make a big impression on the scenary. A good mortar crew with an accurate forward observer can bring effective fire on to a target within 3rds, at a rate of upto 2 rds per second. During the Vietnam conflict, USMC rifle companies serving in country normally had 3 81mm crews in the weapons platoon, and 1 60mm crew in each rifle platoon. They would start of the daily patrol with 12rds each for the 81mm mortars and 24 rds each for the 60mm units. There is a gentleman here, that my wife introduced me to from her old workplace, who grew up in Beirut. He tells me that most of the mortar vans that his unit employed generally carried 10 to 20 rds, with 6 of them in ready racks.

Yes, this is a lot of fire power to have available for a team of runners, but they do provide that extra kick that could be brought to bear by the rigger that is covering the team's 6, should the drek really hit the jet wash.

I have also seen a training film for improvising a mortar using the tube from a roll of carpet, a roofing nail, some 20oz plastic pop bottles, shotgun shells, gasoline, and some short lengths of conduit. I wouldn't recommend this for regular usage. It did not appear from the film that this was a really reliable system. (Read Safe)

[Snow_Fox]

We've used them once or twice on runs, in rural areas like SS lands. We did a short campaign in CFS that was military but that was different. On runs though we usually don't need a bombardment. As already pointed out a grneade launched does just as well in a pinch and the use of mortars was usually for supression, confusino while beating a retreat, raining down smoke and the occassional WP to discourage pursuit.

[Phaeton]

[Austere Emancipa...]

[Ed_209a]

Hmm I wonder if you can use an assault cannon to loft a rifle grenade with similar stats to a Mortar shell...

Come to think of it, a big enough runner might be able to fire a 60mm tube like one of us firing a 40mm GL.

[Austere Emancipa...]

[Ed_209a]

Heh, OK, I have OBVIOUSLY underestimated the recoil of those bad boys. :)

Might work with under-charged rounds though. Sure you won't be slinging them 5km, but you probably won't need to.

[Birdy]

Mortars in SR - no

But in:

Twilight/Merc:2000 the group used six 120mm mortars
2300AD the group used 60mm Manpacks

The Traveller group prefers tube artillery with nuclear warheads


Michael

[Austere Emancipa...]

Darnit, couldn't find confirmation on the propellant charge weight of a 60mm mortar cartridge. That means I can't use the Recoil Calculator found on Raygun's site to do the math.

Anyway, the slowest/smallest range charge propels the round out of the tube at 65m/s, which translates to a measely muzzle energy of 7,098J / 5,235ft-lbs with the 1.68kg cartridge. That's for ranges 70m - 400m. For 200m - 1300m, the muzzle velocity is 126m/s, for a decent muzzle energy of 26,671J / 19,672 ft-lbs. 350m - 2100m requires a muzzle velocity of 170m/s, and thus 48,552J / 35,810 ft-lbs of energy. 500m - 2800m, 208m/s, 72,684 J / 53,609 ft-lbs. 650m - 3500m, 241m/s, 97,576J / 72,968 ft-lbs.

A .50BMG generates about as much energy as the 350m - 2100m round. So it appears it was me who overestimated the recoil. At least energy-wise, it shouldn't be that bad. The 170m/s round generates 286kgm/s momentum though, while the .50BMG only generates about 45kgm/s -- dunno how that affects the recoil.

[Edit]Nice... Birdy's Twilight2k group had the heavy mortar support of a Russian Infantry Regiment. :P[/Edit]

[Cray74]

[Austere Emancipa...]

[bwdemon]

No heavy weapons of any sort, including mortars, have been used in any game I've been in since my first (and admittedly out-of-control) SR2 campaign . Even then, I think it was limited to one guy with a Panther Assault Cannon.

[Digital Heroin]

I had a rigger in one of my games with a naval mortar mounted on one of her citymasters... then she accidentally hit the car right in front of our weapons specialist's car with a round, car stops dead, car behind it full of explosives and ammo slams into it... hell, all that boom and all she took out was a trio of backup goons... target got away...

[Game2BHappy]

We've never used the mortar system, but in our group we have one troll who wants to throw them like massive grenades and a rigger that wants to a drop laser guided mortar round from a blimp drone.

[FlakJacket]