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> I want more magic, cyber, rules, ...., Already enough background-sourcebooks
Rompler24
post Nov 11 2003, 05:05 PM
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Hello everybody!

I don't know about you, but I am more or less sick of all these background-info source books, that appeared in the last couple of months/years almost exclusively. Think of :

- Dragons of the sixth world
- Shadows of Europe
- Johnsons Black Book
- SOTA 2063
- Sprawl Survival Guide

and so on and so on. One might argue, that there are some new rules in some of the books, but these are definitely rules that won't find many uses in actual gameplay.
I want more magic, cyber, maybe a new really useful race, something.

Magic: New adept powers, the ability to enchant healing potions (not just quicken healing, thats not the same; I mean something, that people would actually want to sell (just imagine someone who sells a mighty quickened healing spell, just to resist the drain couple of days later while driving a car: impractical), ....

Cyber: I'm not really into cyber/bio, so I don't know what is still missing, but I suppose, that you could think of a couple of really useful and neat things

Vehicles: A vector-thrust vehicle that is useful in real, everyday life. Something commercial or at least security-related. Maybe power armor, maybe new drones, espacially more walker-drones ....

Equipment: What about a breakthrough in laser-technology or a ray-gun that inflicts stun damage?

Races: Something, that would make ghouls practical in a normal shadowrunner team. Maybe a treatment, that takes away the most disabling penalties they suffer. Maybe rules for playing vampires or rules for playing changelings, that are not inflicted by so much crap that prevents anybody from playing them.

Theres so much new, that could be implemented in the Shadowrun universe without changing the whole concept! I want something really new, it gets boring without it.

Hope you share my thoughts! Do you?
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bwdemon
post Nov 11 2003, 08:39 PM
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I'm actually cool with how things are going and are planned to go, as is, and hope to see it continue.

I have a really big fear that an author/editor with no concept of game balance will get hold of a sourcebook contract. For me, a game really has to be wary of "the next big thing!" syndrome. Anytime you add an item, power, race or whatever that has benefits over others of the same sort, it needs to have equal drawbacks somewhere to preserve game balance.

The SOTA books seem to me a great place to update information. I'm still waiting for 2063, so I don't know what exactly is in it, but they come out at a reasonable pace and they (hopefully) explain what's new in the world. A gradual across-the-board increase in magic/tech through these would be a realistic and beneficial idea. Even minor changes and additions are fine. It's the sudden upheavals and imbalances that get me twitching.
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Synner
post Nov 11 2003, 09:03 PM
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Rompler - I believe you are in the minority. Judging by the reviews alone most people are very satisfied with the latest releases and the way the game has been developing under FanPro. The SR rule set now fills a not-inconsiderable 6 books (SR3, Shadowrun Companion, Magic in the Shadows, Man&Machine, Cannon Companion, Matrix, Rigger3 Revised). There are no plans for new rulebooks although there will continue to be rules updates spread through out (like the SURGE in YotC, new magic in Target: Awakened Lands, Drakes in DotSW).

New rules and rules "plug-ins" will continue to be the pervue of the SOTA books in the forseeable future (the format being roughly 50% world info/50% new rules and material just like SOTA63).

At RatCon in Germany Rob Boyle mentioned that several things are under consideration for SOTA64 including Law Enforcement, New Adept Magic, New Magic, Cyber/Bio/Nanotech, Espionage and the much-demanded return of the Culture Shock section.

According to Rob it's possible Vampires (and other Infected) and Shifters may be (re)visited in the upcoming Running Wild sb but I wouldn't keep my hopes up for new races after changelings and drakes were introduced so recently.

FYI - Mr Johnson's Little Black Book will be SR's version of a GM Companion, and the closest you'll see to a new rulebook, a mix of a Sprawl Sites-type book with Sprawl Survival Guide-type basics for the GM.
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Shockwave_IIc
post Nov 11 2003, 09:26 PM
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Well i like that sourebooks, makes for good reading.

Also there were new rules in SOTA 2063 and SSG. But really how many more differrent toys can u do without repeating yourself?
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Adam
post Nov 12 2003, 12:27 AM
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QUOTE
- SOTA 2063

SOTA had some of nearly everything you listed - Magic, Nanotech [not cyber, but still body modifications], Vehicles, and equipment. As was mentioned, SOTA 2064 will likely add more, in various ways. [Hard to cover law enforcement without covering relevant vehicles/drones, for example...]
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252
post Nov 12 2003, 12:28 AM
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Well I have to agree with the other guys. I have loved reading a lot of the new stuff. I hate that I had thought that Fan Pro would have no idea of the Shadowrun world and make it all go to drek. The drek never hit the fan in my opinion when Fan Pro Wizkids took over.

Like others have said the SOTA books seem to be throwing in new things. I like what I have glanced over (putting that book on hold till I catch up with other stuff, both the game I'm supposed to be running ::shakes his fist at the players who aren't communicating with him:: and the one I'm playing in are based at least four years before 2063, so hopefully you understand why I'm not in any rush to read that one first. However I am in a rush to finish the other books. ::Continues to read PoaD:D'sW, then puts it aside and tries to finish Year of the Comet::
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easytohate
post Nov 12 2003, 12:29 AM
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I personally like the pace of the products for shadowrun. I like the concept of the SOTA books. You can get everything you need in one book, that updates as more technology/ideas become available.
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Kagetenshi
post Nov 12 2003, 12:41 AM
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Honestly, it sounds like I would really dislike it if pretty much anything that Rompler suggests is actually implemented.
Fortunately, it probably won't be.
Nanotech will probably progress, which will be good; maybe in another ten or so years we'll see Obsidimen or Windlings, though incorporating the latter would be very messy. I don't think a new playable race anytime soon would be good, though. I think some status quo holding is in order for a year or so at least; advancement, but not major breakthroughs except maybe in nanotech.

~J
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Kanada Ten
post Nov 12 2003, 12:41 AM
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QUOTE
...the ability to enchant healing potions

They have these. It's called a medkit.

The only thing you will see in that direction is the possibility of delaying drain for anchored spells (quickening makes sustained spells permanemt and would be useless in making what you desire).

I think (hope) SotA is the closet they will come to this type of book. All the things you describe might appear in a future SotA book with actual in game uses for them.
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post Nov 12 2003, 12:52 AM
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Healing potions are extremely costly (yes they can be bought, you have to look into it but SR has an official price, depending on the force and everything.)

Medkits are pretty bad for magical characters, plus they aren't as fast working as magic. (Remember you have to add a +2 to the target number because of being a magacian.)
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Kanada Ten
post Nov 12 2003, 01:09 AM
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And? Allowing Enchanting to create spell affects goes against every shadowrun rule and concept (not even to mention the consequences of it).

Mitigating the drain (perhaps at a higher drain level) would allow anchoring to be useful.
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MooCow
post Nov 12 2003, 01:09 AM
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QUOTE
I want more magic, cyber, maybe a new really useful race, something.


So sit down and write it. People have been making home brew gear, magic, etc for years. Why can't you?

I personally hate rule books (Come to think of it, I personally hate rules). They read like a Sears catalog and are about as entertaining (No offense meant to the people who wrote them).
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FlakJacket
post Nov 12 2003, 01:52 AM
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Christ, that you Moo? Haven't seen you round here in an age. :D

On the subject at hand, keep the new rules and stuff to the SOTA books. I, personally, want lots more background and location books to flesh out the world. :)
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L.D
post Nov 12 2003, 05:18 AM
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Johnsons Black Book seems to be one of the best books in ages! And I think that the recent books have been cool and useful. :D

I like the books so far and wouldn't wanna change 'em.
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Digital Heroin
post Nov 12 2003, 07:59 AM
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QUOTE (MooCow)
I personally hate rule books (Come to think of it, I personally hate rules). They read like a Sears catalog and are about as entertaining (No offense meant to the people who wrote them).

Since when did Sears catalogs get that detailed and well written? Hell, you even picked up any of the recent books?
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MooCow
post Nov 12 2003, 10:58 AM
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QUOTE
Since when did Sears catalogs get that detailed and well written? Hell, you even picked up any of the recent books?


I own every 3rd edition book that's been released. I've at least skimmed through them all. I stand by my statement. Rule books are /boring/. They should only be needed to establish the basic system. From there, anyone who can't create their own item specific rules should be removed from the gene pool (For the good of the species).

Story books on the other hand are entertaining to read. I'm interested in SR for entertainment purposes. Maybe you have some other bizare reason for being interested, but I don't.

The only reason I support FanPro making more rule books is I'm a capitalist, and it makes them money. Hurray for making money! :D
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BIG BAD BEESTE
post Nov 12 2003, 12:54 PM
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Pretty much with MooCow on this one Terms. New gizmo's and rules are OK, but everything you need is already out there to create your own next big thing. Come up with a concept and use the existing stuff as a guideline for the rules. Most of the time you'll find that you are following the rules as written.

Want new guns - check out the Cannon Companion. New drones or vehicles - Rigger 3 (Revised). New spells - Magic in the Shadows. New programs or decks - Matrix. New cyber or bioware - scan Man & Machine to see what they don't have and insert your ideas. Of course if you're purely after Munchkinite and you're GM isn't having any of it, well tough. He's doing a good job.

Beside you can only go so far with rulebooks. Once you have them there's nothing else to do except write up and print off a new edition. You want that go check out White Wolf's World of Darkness or Games Workshop's Warhammer/40,000. As for me (although I thoroughly enjoy partaking in aforementioned games products), well I prefer to have a well developed world that's dynamic and full of interesting plotlines and opportunities. That after all, is the biggest part of what roleplaying is all about.
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Artemus
post Nov 12 2003, 08:00 PM
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I also like the current format. I think the current rules do a good enough job. If you really want new cyber/bioware you can try and just make them up. If you are the GM what's stopping you?

I personally want to see more the Sixth World covered. I can't wait for SoE, and I will definitely look forward to Shadows of Asia. There is just too much that has not had any mention so far.

Any rules updates can be done in the SOTA books. How many more rules do we really need? Keep coming with more background and plot hooks/twists!
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nezumi
post Nov 12 2003, 08:18 PM
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I do kind of agree I would enjoy more equipment and rules, if only for two totally unrelated reasons. Firstly, I love the idea of making a good space opera style RPG, and of all of the RPGs I've seen, FASA/Wiz Kids seem to be the best suited at making a universe proper for that sort of thing. And to make a space opera style game, you need space ships and what not, which really isn't provided for under current rules.

Secondly, a lot of the plot books seem to be going towards weird, earth shaking and mostly magical things; in a lot of ways it's very earthdawn-esque. That's fine and good, but if I wanted to play Earthdawn, I'd play Earthdawn, and if I wanted to play magic-rich with uber powerful creatures running around, I'd play DnD. However gear books just feel like they're more focused on the normal people getting more cool toys (which is much more so like real life) instead of giant horrible creatures waking up from being asleep for a thousand years. I enjoy having a world focused on normal people and cool gear (and huge corporations taking advantage of both). That probably doesn't make much sense to anyone else, but it's just the feeling for the world I get while reading the different sorts of books.

That said, I DO like the fact that, unlike T$R, WW or most other gaming companies, neither FASA nor WizKids have tried to force us to buy a new book every other month so we can keep up with the biggest and bestest. Definitely one of the reasons why I've come to like both companies so much : ) (Oh, I'd *REALLY* like a compendium book; put M&M together with Cannon Companion or Rigger 3 w/ the Matrix... yum!)
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Pavlov
post Nov 19 2003, 07:48 PM
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I really enjoy the background stuff, although my runners generally don't get too involved in earth-changing events. They stopped a dirty bomb from going off once, but that's about as big as it gets. Still, any book that can add flavor to the seeting is welcome.

I would like to see more gear though. Not guns/cyber/bio but those wonderful toys you see in movies like Ocean's 11, Italian Job, and Ronin. Yes, I could just have the Rigger sit down and roll some Electronics [B/R] in a lot of cases, but I've often found that's a "solve problem Y" situation. Having a list of new types of gadgets I haven't thought of yet allows the GM to "create problems XY" for players :D

And more PhysAd powers, even though I never play them. They just seem the most limited archetype out there.
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moosegod
post Nov 19 2003, 10:35 PM
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Does anyone have some good sites of new, user made, 'wares, spells, vehicles, etc?
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Large Mike
post Nov 19 2003, 11:02 PM
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You know, for spacepunk, all you really need is to build some ships. There's nothing else that really needs to be added. Trust me, I've looked into it. Rigger 3 is all you really need to change Shadowrun to something more spacepunk. Instead of 2063, make it 2163. Alot of the stuff would be the same.
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nezumi
post Nov 20 2003, 12:14 AM
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Mike, that's an excellent point. Has anyone put up any spaceship ideas anywhere? I'd be interested in seeing some stats for those.
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Jérémie
post Nov 20 2003, 12:48 AM
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QUOTE (Rompler24)
I don't know about you, but I am more or less sick of all these background-info source books, that appeared in the last couple of months/years almost exclusively.

I am not. Enough rules, it's time to place some serious ground to the background (already started with SSG and, one day maybe, SOE and SOA).
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Kanada Ten
post Nov 20 2003, 01:00 AM
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QUOTE (nezumi @ Nov 19 2003, 07:14 PM)
Has anyone put up any spaceship ideas anywhere?  I'd be interested in seeing some stats for those.

A recent TSS issue had some, but I can't reach the site currently.

[edit]
Into the Void. It has rules for construction, and some examples.



This post has been edited by Kanada Ten: Nov 20 2003, 05:01 AM
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