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Hello everybody!

I don't know about you, but I am more or less sick of all these background-info source books, that appeared in the last couple of months/years almost exclusively. Think of :

- Dragons of the sixth world
- Shadows of Europe
- Johnsons Black Book
- SOTA 2063
- Sprawl Survival Guide

and so on and so on. One might argue, that there are some new rules in some of the books, but these are definitely rules that won't find many uses in actual gameplay.
I want more magic, cyber, maybe a new really useful race, something.

Magic: New adept powers, the ability to enchant healing potions (not just quicken healing, thats not the same; I mean something, that people would actually want to sell (just imagine someone who sells a mighty quickened healing spell, just to resist the drain couple of days later while driving a car: impractical), ....

Cyber: I'm not really into cyber/bio, so I don't know what is still missing, but I suppose, that you could think of a couple of really useful and neat things

Vehicles: A vector-thrust vehicle that is useful in real, everyday life. Something commercial or at least security-related. Maybe power armor, maybe new drones, espacially more walker-drones ....

Equipment: What about a breakthrough in laser-technology or a ray-gun that inflicts stun damage?

Races: Something, that would make ghouls practical in a normal shadowrunner team. Maybe a treatment, that takes away the most disabling penalties they suffer. Maybe rules for playing vampires or rules for playing changelings, that are not inflicted by so much crap that prevents anybody from playing them.

Theres so much new, that could be implemented in the Shadowrun universe without changing the whole concept! I want something really new, it gets boring without it.

Hope you share my thoughts! Do you?
I'm actually cool with how things are going and are planned to go, as is, and hope to see it continue.

I have a really big fear that an author/editor with no concept of game balance will get hold of a sourcebook contract. For me, a game really has to be wary of "the next big thing!" syndrome. Anytime you add an item, power, race or whatever that has benefits over others of the same sort, it needs to have equal drawbacks somewhere to preserve game balance.

The SOTA books seem to me a great place to update information. I'm still waiting for 2063, so I don't know what exactly is in it, but they come out at a reasonable pace and they (hopefully) explain what's new in the world. A gradual across-the-board increase in magic/tech through these would be a realistic and beneficial idea. Even minor changes and additions are fine. It's the sudden upheavals and imbalances that get me twitching.
Rompler - I believe you are in the minority. Judging by the reviews alone most people are very satisfied with the latest releases and the way the game has been developing under FanPro. The SR rule set now fills a not-inconsiderable 6 books (SR3, Shadowrun Companion, Magic in the Shadows, Man&Machine, Cannon Companion, Matrix, Rigger3 Revised). There are no plans for new rulebooks although there will continue to be rules updates spread through out (like the SURGE in YotC, new magic in Target: Awakened Lands, Drakes in DotSW).

New rules and rules "plug-ins" will continue to be the pervue of the SOTA books in the forseeable future (the format being roughly 50% world info/50% new rules and material just like SOTA63).

At RatCon in Germany Rob Boyle mentioned that several things are under consideration for SOTA64 including Law Enforcement, New Adept Magic, New Magic, Cyber/Bio/Nanotech, Espionage and the much-demanded return of the Culture Shock section.

According to Rob it's possible Vampires (and other Infected) and Shifters may be (re)visited in the upcoming Running Wild sb but I wouldn't keep my hopes up for new races after changelings and drakes were introduced so recently.

FYI - Mr Johnson's Little Black Book will be SR's version of a GM Companion, and the closest you'll see to a new rulebook, a mix of a Sprawl Sites-type book with Sprawl Survival Guide-type basics for the GM.
Well i like that sourebooks, makes for good reading.

Also there were new rules in SOTA 2063 and SSG. But really how many more differrent toys can u do without repeating yourself?
- SOTA 2063

SOTA had some of nearly everything you listed - Magic, Nanotech [not cyber, but still body modifications], Vehicles, and equipment. As was mentioned, SOTA 2064 will likely add more, in various ways. [Hard to cover law enforcement without covering relevant vehicles/drones, for example...]
Well I have to agree with the other guys. I have loved reading a lot of the new stuff. I hate that I had thought that Fan Pro would have no idea of the Shadowrun world and make it all go to drek. The drek never hit the fan in my opinion when Fan Pro Wizkids took over.

Like others have said the SOTA books seem to be throwing in new things. I like what I have glanced over (putting that book on hold till I catch up with other stuff, both the game I'm supposed to be running ::shakes his fist at the players who aren't communicating with him:: and the one I'm playing in are based at least four years before 2063, so hopefully you understand why I'm not in any rush to read that one first. However I am in a rush to finish the other books. ::Continues to read PoaD:D'sW, then puts it aside and tries to finish Year of the Comet::
I personally like the pace of the products for shadowrun. I like the concept of the SOTA books. You can get everything you need in one book, that updates as more technology/ideas become available.
Honestly, it sounds like I would really dislike it if pretty much anything that Rompler suggests is actually implemented.
Fortunately, it probably won't be.
Nanotech will probably progress, which will be good; maybe in another ten or so years we'll see Obsidimen or Windlings, though incorporating the latter would be very messy. I don't think a new playable race anytime soon would be good, though. I think some status quo holding is in order for a year or so at least; advancement, but not major breakthroughs except maybe in nanotech.

Kanada Ten
...the ability to enchant healing potions

They have these. It's called a medkit.

The only thing you will see in that direction is the possibility of delaying drain for anchored spells (quickening makes sustained spells permanemt and would be useless in making what you desire).

I think (hope) SotA is the closet they will come to this type of book. All the things you describe might appear in a future SotA book with actual in game uses for them.
Healing potions are extremely costly (yes they can be bought, you have to look into it but SR has an official price, depending on the force and everything.)

Medkits are pretty bad for magical characters, plus they aren't as fast working as magic. (Remember you have to add a +2 to the target number because of being a magacian.)
Kanada Ten
And? Allowing Enchanting to create spell affects goes against every shadowrun rule and concept (not even to mention the consequences of it).

Mitigating the drain (perhaps at a higher drain level) would allow anchoring to be useful.
I want more magic, cyber, maybe a new really useful race, something.

So sit down and write it. People have been making home brew gear, magic, etc for years. Why can't you?

I personally hate rule books (Come to think of it, I personally hate rules). They read like a Sears catalog and are about as entertaining (No offense meant to the people who wrote them).
Christ, that you Moo? Haven't seen you round here in an age. biggrin.gif

On the subject at hand, keep the new rules and stuff to the SOTA books. I, personally, want lots more background and location books to flesh out the world. smile.gif
Johnsons Black Book seems to be one of the best books in ages! And I think that the recent books have been cool and useful. biggrin.gif

I like the books so far and wouldn't wanna change 'em.
Digital Heroin
QUOTE (MooCow)
I personally hate rule books (Come to think of it, I personally hate rules). They read like a Sears catalog and are about as entertaining (No offense meant to the people who wrote them).

Since when did Sears catalogs get that detailed and well written? Hell, you even picked up any of the recent books?
Since when did Sears catalogs get that detailed and well written? Hell, you even picked up any of the recent books?

I own every 3rd edition book that's been released. I've at least skimmed through them all. I stand by my statement. Rule books are /boring/. They should only be needed to establish the basic system. From there, anyone who can't create their own item specific rules should be removed from the gene pool (For the good of the species).

Story books on the other hand are entertaining to read. I'm interested in SR for entertainment purposes. Maybe you have some other bizare reason for being interested, but I don't.

The only reason I support FanPro making more rule books is I'm a capitalist, and it makes them money. Hurray for making money! biggrin.gif
Pretty much with MooCow on this one Terms. New gizmo's and rules are OK, but everything you need is already out there to create your own next big thing. Come up with a concept and use the existing stuff as a guideline for the rules. Most of the time you'll find that you are following the rules as written.

Want new guns - check out the Cannon Companion. New drones or vehicles - Rigger 3 (Revised). New spells - Magic in the Shadows. New programs or decks - Matrix. New cyber or bioware - scan Man & Machine to see what they don't have and insert your ideas. Of course if you're purely after Munchkinite and you're GM isn't having any of it, well tough. He's doing a good job.

Beside you can only go so far with rulebooks. Once you have them there's nothing else to do except write up and print off a new edition. You want that go check out White Wolf's World of Darkness or Games Workshop's Warhammer/40,000. As for me (although I thoroughly enjoy partaking in aforementioned games products), well I prefer to have a well developed world that's dynamic and full of interesting plotlines and opportunities. That after all, is the biggest part of what roleplaying is all about.
I also like the current format. I think the current rules do a good enough job. If you really want new cyber/bioware you can try and just make them up. If you are the GM what's stopping you?

I personally want to see more the Sixth World covered. I can't wait for SoE, and I will definitely look forward to Shadows of Asia. There is just too much that has not had any mention so far.

Any rules updates can be done in the SOTA books. How many more rules do we really need? Keep coming with more background and plot hooks/twists!
I do kind of agree I would enjoy more equipment and rules, if only for two totally unrelated reasons. Firstly, I love the idea of making a good space opera style RPG, and of all of the RPGs I've seen, FASA/Wiz Kids seem to be the best suited at making a universe proper for that sort of thing. And to make a space opera style game, you need space ships and what not, which really isn't provided for under current rules.

Secondly, a lot of the plot books seem to be going towards weird, earth shaking and mostly magical things; in a lot of ways it's very earthdawn-esque. That's fine and good, but if I wanted to play Earthdawn, I'd play Earthdawn, and if I wanted to play magic-rich with uber powerful creatures running around, I'd play DnD. However gear books just feel like they're more focused on the normal people getting more cool toys (which is much more so like real life) instead of giant horrible creatures waking up from being asleep for a thousand years. I enjoy having a world focused on normal people and cool gear (and huge corporations taking advantage of both). That probably doesn't make much sense to anyone else, but it's just the feeling for the world I get while reading the different sorts of books.

That said, I DO like the fact that, unlike T$R, WW or most other gaming companies, neither FASA nor WizKids have tried to force us to buy a new book every other month so we can keep up with the biggest and bestest. Definitely one of the reasons why I've come to like both companies so much : ) (Oh, I'd *REALLY* like a compendium book; put M&M together with Cannon Companion or Rigger 3 w/ the Matrix... yum!)
I really enjoy the background stuff, although my runners generally don't get too involved in earth-changing events. They stopped a dirty bomb from going off once, but that's about as big as it gets. Still, any book that can add flavor to the seeting is welcome.

I would like to see more gear though. Not guns/cyber/bio but those wonderful toys you see in movies like Ocean's 11, Italian Job, and Ronin. Yes, I could just have the Rigger sit down and roll some Electronics [B/R] in a lot of cases, but I've often found that's a "solve problem Y" situation. Having a list of new types of gadgets I haven't thought of yet allows the GM to "create problems XY" for players biggrin.gif

And more PhysAd powers, even though I never play them. They just seem the most limited archetype out there.
Does anyone have some good sites of new, user made, 'wares, spells, vehicles, etc?
Large Mike

You know, for spacepunk, all you really need is to build some ships. There's nothing else that really needs to be added. Trust me, I've looked into it. Rigger 3 is all you really need to change Shadowrun to something more spacepunk. Instead of 2063, make it 2163. Alot of the stuff would be the same.
Mike, that's an excellent point. Has anyone put up any spaceship ideas anywhere? I'd be interested in seeing some stats for those.
QUOTE (Rompler24)
I don't know about you, but I am more or less sick of all these background-info source books, that appeared in the last couple of months/years almost exclusively.

I am not. Enough rules, it's time to place some serious ground to the background (already started with SSG and, one day maybe, SOE and SOA).
Kanada Ten
QUOTE (nezumi @ Nov 19 2003, 07:14 PM)
Has anyone put up any spaceship ideas anywhere?  I'd be interested in seeing some stats for those.

A recent TSS issue had some, but I can't reach the site currently.

Into the Void. It has rules for construction, and some examples.

Moonstone Spider
I've been working on a home-rules book to handle the training of animals and using them on runs, complete with rules for creating new critters and how to set a fair price for them. If I can make up something that complex and game altering I'm sure you can figure out how to make a walker drone or security-grade Jumpjet (Come to think of it there are at least a few drones that are purely civilian, like the crop-duster one.)

For starships I'd say you need three classes of vehicle, capital, shuttles, and space station. Capital ships would use naval damage codes and have a hull rating. The chassis would include a special capship-only module for indefinite life support (Rated for X individuals, too many and bad things happen). You could really just start with the existing ship chassis in R3, play with the stats a bit, add in a free life-support module, and say it flies. Shuttles would be require man-hour life support comparable to the existing ones in R3, however you'd have to rate them for many times more hours as 12 hours of life support would be useless most of the time. It would need to be rated in weeks or even months. Again, you could just take the existing chassis for one of the flying vehicles and adapt it as needed. Nearly all vehicles aside from short-range fighters would need living amenities so you'd have to have zeppelin and cargo chassis at the least. Stations would be specials and rated for lots of people and unable to move, but otherwise be just like capships. Come to think of it you'd probably want to rate them as having a damage code beyond naval, something where 50 boxes of damage is a light wound and nothing short of a nuke will have much effect. I personally would arrange things so that a single shadowrunner could just barely afford (and operate) the lowest end capships, corvette and light freighter chassis, but most runners would be limited to either shuttles or public transportation.

If you wanted realism for your spaceship trajectories you'd require so much math to handle the flights only physicists should play. Therefore we require a bit of sci-fi in inventing a powerful reactionless drive to make things easier. Gravity would be assumed to apply to a spacecraft only while it's in orbit or closer to a planet or moon. I'd suggest either a ramscoop ion-drive or possibly a lightsail with planetary laser array for your drive system, but there are several options there.

Other considerations are communications, limited to the speed of light, FTL everywhere, or possibly FTL available but only to the rich?
Not weeks; probably not even days, unless we're talking very futuristic. Near-future shuttles (and probably mid-future, too) would just be used to get from the capships to the stations or planet and back.

Wireknight's userfolder at Shadowland has a number of new things, including metamagic, adept powers, edges/flaws, cyberware and some house rules. it's at Main / User Folders / Wireknight / Gaming / Shadowrun.

and how the heck can you look at SOTA:63 and say it doesn't have enough new rules stuff?
The only "stuff" books I want to see are background stuff books. Such as in SSG, the butler bot and other cleaning drones, and in M&M, the hook hand for people too poor to buy a real replacement. I want to see more "stuff" for normal people, not another big gun that can blow stuff up.
Moonstone Spider
Not weeks; probably not even days, unless we're talking very futuristic. Near-future shuttles (and probably mid-future, too) would just be used to get from the capships to the stations or planet and back.
I'm not really sure about that. After all, existing space shuttles can handle several days (I don't know the exact limits, but missions frequently take several days) I would expect a little bit of progress in 150 years or more.

I'm thinking an average shuttle should have all the fuel/life support needed for a trip to the moon or a cruise in orbit for a few days. On the other hand if you want to travel to any other planet you need either the biggest most expensive long-range shuttle or else a real capship. A cheap shuttle would have to rush to make it to the moon in time.
I'm not saying it wouldn't be possible, just wouldn't be necessary or cost-effective in most cases.

Moonstone Spider
I suppose that really depends on the campaign type you want. If shuttles are that short-range then all the action will have to take place on the stations and capships. For a traditional shadowrun this can be a real problem, since basically it's nearly impossible to make a getaway without your own capship waiting. So unless you have a heavily stealthed capship that somehow has a sig of 15 nearby waiting for your escape in a shuttle, as soon as an alarm sounds every single shadowrunner is dead meat. That's why I feel a shuttle needs sufficient range to fly to at least a day or two away where something could be reasonably hidden.
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