 Did we mess up? |
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 Jun 26 2007, 07:35 PM
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#26
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 500 Joined: 3-January 07 From: Calgary, Alberta Member No.: 10,517  |
I've played some sessions with GMs that railroaded so much they must have been enjoying it on some level. Most GMs hate railroading though. =) |
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Jun 26 2007, 07:55 PM
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#27
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,595 Joined: 31-December 06 Member No.: 10,502 |
Like I said I think things actually went well except by the perception by at least the one player that they didn't. Again it wasn't top work but they were new and rushed. It sounds like the result was fun and chaotic.
And not everyone on the planet does things the super smart conservitive way, especially a ganger. Maybe the rigger likes hot rigging his drones for the better perception, maybe just for the assist spike rush while flying around or listening to the concert. And, while I don't know On the Run all that well I doubt that if they detailed the rigger they would have given much more than systems at 4, firewall at 6, and programs at 3. Spend a point of edge on the hack on the fly attempt and a hacker should be able to breeze that. My only concern in all this is the technomancer. |
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Jun 26 2007, 08:04 PM
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#28
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
They didn't detail the rigger at all, except to say he was parked in a trailer 'round back.
Hell, my group's first idea was to have a drone-truck drive up, connect it to the trailor, and drive away rigger and all! Given that I had literally five seconds to come up with something, I gave him a rating 5 firewall and computer skills of four, with all his other computer ratings at 3. |
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Jun 26 2007, 08:39 PM
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#29
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 123 Joined: 7-October 05 From: Glow City Safehouse Member No.: 7,821 |
[Edit: Ack, forgot I hit quote]
Okay, wow, after hearing the story.... I can't help but laugh at that. ShadowDragon8685, you have your work cut out for you. Ah well. :rotfl: The 'grab the rigger and run' theory would have been beautiful, and also what my players would have done. 8) |
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Jun 26 2007, 08:45 PM
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#30
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
Another problem I'm having is the pathetically low pay-out of the run. Even though I upped it by 5,000 :nuyen: (to a grand total of 15K), nobody had the negotiation to get any extra :nuyen: out of Mr. Johnson.
Where is the incentive for the hacker and the technomancer not to just pull random datasteals while everyone else runs around looking for the disk? Hell, the Rigger, even though he was fencing stolen goods, made about half as much as hit total cut from the mission would be just by fencing off the Fly-Eyes he stole. At this rate, the majority of their money from the run is going to come from miscelanious sources and fenced crap. That's why they wanted to grab the rigger. They figured he had to be rigged up with some expensive electronics in that trailer, and they were considering organlegging him until I flat-out told them I would not tolerate that kind of thing because I would not play with people who did such things. |
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Jun 26 2007, 09:02 PM
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#31
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 123 Joined: 7-October 05 From: Glow City Safehouse Member No.: 7,821 |
Should have let them. Mind you, other riggers wouldn't be so happy. Buisness is Buisness, but it's only Buisness. Don't make it personal. And if Mister Bunker can play with the outside world, the outside world can play with him. He doesn't believe that? You prove it to him. If he want's to play the game that way, play it that way. Remind him of that as the orc Razorboy is holding him down with a switchblade in the other hand, as his hacker friends look over the scanner and tell him where to cut. :cyber: On the other side of the coin, yeah, they will make a bundle off junk they grab. But random comlinks won't HAVE paydata, stealing too much close to home does get lonestar, and people will have weapons that can hurt the unwary. One of my players said it best as he played a catburgler. "Half the reason I run is so I can have someone else pick my targets." |
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Jun 26 2007, 09:06 PM
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#32
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
Yes, however...
Pulling runs on corporate matrix sites often does result in paydata. Even if it's not very BIG paydata, it's still paydata, and he's a good enough hacker to sleaze his way through low-key systems and jack all their paydata. Plus, they stole Nabo's commlink, which the book even directs me to have paydata, though it dosen't tell me how. |
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Jun 26 2007, 09:07 PM
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#33
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,706 Joined: 30-June 06 From: Fort Wayne, IN Member No.: 8,814 |
I have no problem giving more nuyen for runs strictly to avoid that sort of thing (fencing everything they find). Granted, in my current campaign, I have upped the karma rewards, so nuyen is not what my players are usually looking to grab...each player seems to have 10,000-30,000 nuyen available to them and more karma then they are readily able to train...
I think if you satisfy those two needs, then you don't end up with players trying to take and fence everything they find. |
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Jun 26 2007, 09:08 PM
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#34
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Target Group: Members Posts: 12 Joined: 25-June 07 Member No.: 12,029 |
I ran the same scenario (On The Run), and my group's technomancer is going to end up with more money from fencing the files on Nabo's commlink (in addition to a recording of Nabo on the phone with a lady friend) than from the run itself. I don't think it's a big deal. The hackers get to fence the data while the street sams and mages get to fence any decent gear from people they take out in combat. It's actually helping a bit, because the group has 6 people and they were only able to negotiate up to 13,000 :nuyen: ; there were plenty of complaints about the fact that the low pay meant they'd barely be able to make rent. |
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Jun 26 2007, 09:36 PM
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#35
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,595 Joined: 31-December 06 Member No.: 10,502 |
SR4 actually, thankfully, removed the bit about random paydata. Also removed the "find paydata" action, players kinda have to recognize it.
In general if a system is accesabile readily to the matrix assume it has no paydata. So you kinda have to be on a run to get some. |
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Jun 26 2007, 09:37 PM
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#36
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 123 Joined: 7-October 05 From: Glow City Safehouse Member No.: 7,821 |
This is truth, simply because random paydata has already been found and posted from public sites, for the most part. |
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Jun 26 2007, 09:44 PM
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#37
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
To me, randomly browsing someone's secure-but-not-secure-enough system for paydata is, always has been, and always will be part of Shadowrun.
They may take my Cyberdeck, but they shall NEVER take my pink mohawk decker! So I really don't have much of a problem handing out random paydata, as long as they realize it could get heat on their ass. Although I need a better means of generating how much it's worth, and how much hassle they have to go through to cash it in... Last time he did it, I said he lucked out and found some idiot transmitting bank details in the clear. |
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Jun 26 2007, 10:03 PM
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#38
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 398 Joined: 16-August 06 Member No.: 9,130 |
Given the very limited information I am scrape up from you post, I believe the GM is wrong. You have a crowd of of delinquent orks going to a hard rock concert. It sounds like you are playing On the Run. There is no way they would know it was a shadowrunning team. Maybe it was a gang who wanted some drones and their rock idols commlink. That is just one explanation, there are many explanation when you have crazed fans, especially ork gangers, to describe stolen property. I think the GM is giving NPCs information they would not otherwise have or have the capability of knowing. Unless of course you were sloppy and information was leaked out that way. However, this sounds like his total reasoning for you them suspecting shadowrunners is because their pathetic rigger was knocked out, drones were stolen, and a commlink was stolen. His reasoning does not follow. Unless they were specifically expecting a shadowrun team to steal his commlink, meaning your Johnson or the corporation he works for didn't do a good job keeping a lid on what they are planning. Both are rather doubtful. Unless these guys have evidence pointing to shadowrunners, they would have no reason for thinking so. Your GM sounds like he is new to the whole scene. Or at least the Shadowrun scene. I would suggest he reads the GM portion of the SR4 book. They did a rather good job on this section in my opinion. Also, if he is going to Gencon in INDY I suggest he goto the GM event, I am going to be there too. I plan on GMing myself and I am completely new to it; i have never GMed a game in my life. Though I do know what a good GM is, because I have the privilege of having one in my gaming group. I currently have a GM new to SR4 and we did On the Run as well. The first few session were rather rocky, partly because we weren't all familiar with the rules, and because the GM needed some sharpening. In some parts of you post it seemed as if the GM sees himself as an adversary to the PCs. Now that were done with the GM side, what about the PCs? My group doesn't get into heated debates about what to do. Myself or someone in the group always comes up with that aha moment. We all recognize our fellow gamer's genius and promptly go with their plan. Then other times we rush into things, and do really dumb things. When you are starting off it is really important that the players discuss. Especially if you have players that are well read on the rules and world very well. This can really help those that have no clue what to do, to get a grasp of the rules and world to act believably in the session. Sometimes what will happen is that the players that know the rules the most will steal the scene and then unfortunately the GM is left with trying to figure out how incorporate the other players into the game. In order to give more constructive criticism I would really have to know what the big debate was about. Or was it just planning? One other thing, if that 20min discussion could have been done in character it should have been. That is something my group is struggling with, I blame cancer. We talk way too much OOC and not enough IC. |
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Jun 26 2007, 10:06 PM
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#39
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,595 Joined: 31-December 06 Member No.: 10,502 |
Play it how you want to. But, from a gme perspective that made more sense in previous editions.
For one deckers used to be all there was. And a decent system with software would run you close to half a million nuyen. A really good system would be in the multi millions. Very few people have that, so it makes sense some paydata might be lying around. Also in order to fund their insane systems deckers simply needed more money. So this got them that cash. Fast forward to SR4. Otaku have been around a while, potent comlinks are still kinda pricey, but the software is easier to code, all in all it's cheaper to be a hacker, and now, of course, TMs that can blow through systems are cropping up like the mages of earlier years. I'd say corps would be a lot more reluctant to have actual paydata where those people could get it, and it's not like the hackers/TMs really need more money than a Sammy anyway. But play it how you want to. Also I suppose there is a wide variety in what constitiutes paydata. Stuff that might be decent cred for a pink mohawked punk might be around. Just not the kind of money that makes you hackers wonder why they bother with the shadows. |
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Jun 26 2007, 10:13 PM
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#40
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
I think it would have been great to do that personally. Very out-of-the-box thinking. Especially if they had it stop in ghoul territory, and it was a stolen vehicle anyway, so disposable. but time constraints and all make that sort of thing difficult. Paydata ideas [ Spoiler ]
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Jun 27 2007, 01:24 AM
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#41
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 125 Joined: 22-June 07 Member No.: 11,979 |
I'm the technomancer mentioned (barely) in this adventure. It's true that the Rigger outshines me, and I didn't really do anything in this adventure. Hell, at least the troll got to guard a rope.
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Jun 27 2007, 03:37 AM
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#42
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,883 Joined: 16-December 06 Member No.: 10,386 |
Aww, that's a shame. I love organlegging. I'm a pretty merciful guy in shadowrun, generally. I don't go out of my way to kill anyone, anyway. But if I do kill someone, out comes the scalpel and ziplock bags. Just think of it as using every part of the buffalo. |
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Jun 27 2007, 03:42 AM
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#43
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 125 Joined: 22-June 07 Member No.: 11,979 |
I played in a Shadowrun MUSH for a while and one of my player contacts as a Doctor who specialized in hocking used cyberware. He was fun to call in because he'd show up looking like he was going to help the guy and a couple of times crowds cheered him as he drove away.
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Jun 27 2007, 04:08 AM
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#44
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 123 Joined: 7-October 05 From: Glow City Safehouse Member No.: 7,821 |
HeHe, that's the way to do it. 8) |
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Jun 27 2007, 04:27 AM
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#45
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,512 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 392 |
I don't mind my group organ legging in SR4 since they now have Noteriety built into the core rules. They got involved in some of that in the last run and I gave them all 1 Noteriety. Now it is part of their street rep.
"Hey, I know you, you're that chummer who can't handle his booze and keeps slicing people open for their cyberware." |
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Jun 27 2007, 04:33 AM
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#46
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 410 Joined: 5-April 07 From: Vancouver, BC Member No.: 11,383 |
And the appropriate response is, "Who told you that lie? I can drink with the best of them" As you hit them with a taser so as to not accidentally shoot a bullet through anything you can sell, "and I don't just take cyberware if there aint nothin wrong with the rest of ya."
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Jun 27 2007, 05:48 AM
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#47
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,537 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Albuquerque NM Member No.: 9,234 |
One of the things I love about hand razors is that you don't have to reach for a weapon. So by the time he's got his gun out of his holster you have his trachea out of his throat. Kind of messy, but with the right detergent the blood usually comes out.
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Jun 27 2007, 05:58 AM
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#48
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 125 Joined: 22-June 07 Member No.: 11,979 |
You have won the humor award for making me giggle. Your trophy will arrive in 6-8 weeks. |
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Jun 28 2007, 01:04 PM
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#49
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Running, running, running Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,220 Joined: 18-October 04 From: North Carolina Member No.: 6,769 |
ya kow, i think the paydata is still out there, you just have to realize that its not just some mysterious file labeled "paydata". jimmy cybereyes likes the up skirt shits and records them? i bet someone else does too out in that world. money! a dr.s list of patients that is thought to distribute 'roids to athletes? money!
paydata can be anything you want it to be. |
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Jun 28 2007, 01:50 PM
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#50
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Target Group: Members Posts: 74 Joined: 28-September 06 Member No.: 9,490 |
Our group ran through the same adventure (though I was a player and not the GM). I will agree with much of what has already been said in that the adventure does tend to limit your options and perhaps requires a little out of the box thinking.
That being said, it can be a very fun adventure but poses the risk that certain characters may be left on the sideline. As for the payout, I'll just say that our group found a nice workaround to increase our funds, but I'll just leave it at that so as to not spoil it for anyone else. I'll give the GM the benefit of the doubt on this one as it does sound as though he was trying to help you out here. Perhaps he could have been a little more subtle in suggesting that certain actions were not recommended, but that seems minor to me. I would say though, that if in fact the team does want to just barge their way in, the GM should let them try (after all, they could get extremely lucky) but I have no problem with the GM saying something along the lines of "You do realize there are a couple thousand armed orcs in there right?" (or however many there actually were). If the group still wants to rush in, well, its their funeral. Additionally, I'll agree that its likely that the targets would suspect a group of shadowrunners being involved. Of course, knowing that a group of shadowrunners were involved and knowing that the group of shadowrunners involved was your particular group are two different things. The only thing I really have a problem with is the "One hour has elapsed." I understand that the adventure specifically tells the GM to put the pressure on the group but I think it may have perhaps been better to issue a warning first. Something like "Just so you know, the clock's ticking here." There's really nothing wrong in my mind with the GM trying to get the game back on track, particularly if it looks as though the party is arguing or getting completely sidetracked. However, if you force the issue too much, you run the risk of your runs being completely done "on the fly" for fear of missing the deadline. Again though, I would say that this was minor on the GM's part here, and that a lot of the blame probably goes to the written adventure itself. Even our GM said that he was not overly thrilled with the adventure afterward and indicated that it seemed to suffer from the author of the adventure "knowing" what should be done and then just assuming that it was equally clear to everyone else. In sum though to determine if you messed up ask yourself two questions a) Did we do what we were supposed to do? and b) Did we have fun doing it? If you answer yes to both, then you did not mess up. |
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