Need help making a gang., Mr Rigger wants to do this RAW. Options

[Critias]

How Crit would have done it ™:

Mage-guy astrally checks the bunker out. Do, de do, de do, de do, looks around, finds the gimp. Ta da! Goes back to his body.

Then siccs his spirits on the guy. Not to kill him, but to knock him out. And break some shit (but knock him out, first). The guy's a min/maxer and, by forcing him into a realbody physical confrontation, you're hitting him where he's minned. Easy as pie, for even a low Force Spirit or two.

Then the gang leader strolls in past all the broken defenses and off-line stuff (due to the rigger being KOed instead of running the show), and has a little talk with him about who runs those blocks.

The end.

[hyzmarca]

Unfortunately, no. The devs opened the door for this by giving mini-welder and thermite bars huge flat DVs instead of having them cause damage over time and ignore the convert-to-stun rule. Going by the termite and mini-welder stats, and the nature of a thermal lance, that's just about right.
I one might choose to lower the DV to 15, but the lance is closer to thermite than it is to an electric welder, and it had the advantage of being in the form of a polearm.

And its a bunch of iron bars in an iron tube. It isn't like it takes a rich rocket scientist to make one. Poor barrens gangers should be using these things.

[Rifleman]

[Ravor]

Quicker considering that according to his character sheet it doesn't appear that he even has a bunker at all.

*Edit*

Oh, and I'm stealing the thermite lance idea.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

[hyzmarca]

The oxygen is drawn from the air through spaces between the iron rods. It is about as much rocket science as lighting a torch is.

[Critias]

Lighting a tor...WOAH, you lost me!

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Nope. It requires pure, compressed oxygen - and lot's of it. That makes it pretty much useless as a weapon. (as thermite burning bars are, too, per RAW)

[Crusher Bob]

That's thermic lance not thermite lance.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

[Ravor]

:oops: Maybe that will teach me to skim while replying...

...Naw, probably not. :cyber:

[hyzmarca]

[Rotbart van Dain...]

But it's not canon to use a thermite burning bar as a weapon - and I don't see why a thermic lance should provide any advantage to that.

[kzt]

[sunnyside]

On the subject of spirit costs you can scrounge for them. But a mage would probably be reluctant to use them unless he really had to.

However just wistling up a single higher for spirit isn't a problem at all. And they're within range so you don't even need to use a remote service, though you could if you wanted to.

On trick you have here is that it's a lot easier to kill your player than it is to knock him out. This is due to his high willpower but low body.

This guy has maxed edge so be careful of the advice a lot of these guys are giving. There is a very high chance engulf will NOT work. They player will put edge into the melee roll and win. Then on his next turn he'll probably lay in with some APDS something or whatever and drop the spirit. Ditto with compulsion.


Really using raw unless the dice don't like him there probably isn't too much you can do with the first spirit. Maybe have it come in with concealment on (which takes up a service and gives the -2 modifier until the spirit drops it). If he fails perception/surprise an engulf with electric energy aura will probably do it. Otherwise you might do better with innate spell stunbolt or one of the mental manipulationg spells as an innate spell.

Still it's very likely that he'll somehow manage to deal with the first spirit. If you have a second weaker mage in the group (maybe attack with a force 5 and a force 3). It'll be a little rougher but he'll probably still do it.

But here's the fun part, have sticks simply summon up another. Actually roll though. there is a chance drain will weaken sticks to where it isn't safe to summon another. Though sticks should also have a little edge to roll if a spirit rolls high and could knock him out. Be fair here.

Still sticks is probably good for a few spirits.

Note that the layout of the bunker matters too. After beating the first spirits your player will probably make a break for earth. Spirits can't pass through it, and spirits can't attack the turn they materialize meaning that he'd get to use the surprise rules for every spirit that pops up. (with +3 dice in his favor due to him being the ambusher but the spirit knowing he's there).

He'll also probably have his drones covering the area. They have a chance to hurt spirits.

You can have the spirits start laying into the drones though. Innate electrical attacks and electrical aura+engulf could do some serious property damage.

Also he'll probably be calling in the group mage as fast as he can.

In short you might not actually be able to get him. But you should be able to make it exciting, get him to use up a lot of edge, and probably do some major property damage.

Get him to fix up his char sheet first though.

[hyzmarca]

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Not really.

[odinson]

I wonder if WIFI blocking paint can come in spray tins?

Summoner to spirit of man, "I want you to materialize, appearing as a small street kid, and take these bottles of spray paint and paint murals over the walls of that building. after goto the roof and paint it."

DM to Rigger, "You see a steet kid maybe 10 years old coming over and painting the walls of your bunker. He appears to be doing some sort of graffiti. It is really horrible and the kid has no artistic ability."

Rigger ignores kid. Continue with adventure.

DM to Rigger, "You seem to be getting some interference with your drones."
Rigger to team mates, "Someones got a jammer down on your end, find them."

[ShadowDragon8685]

Guys, guys.

I think everyone is assuming I'm having these gangers maliciously attack him. I'm not!

They showed up to a meet that the Geek called. The meet went down, they just wanted to withdraw unmolested. The little killbot (which, having been seen on the news turning a man into a huge spread of blood and guts over a StufferShack's floor) was under the watch of the force 5 spirit. The little drone was ordered to leap at a crate and open it, which the spirit interpreted as an attack and it Engulfed him. (I didn't know Materialization was an action, my bad.)

At this, the rigger told me he was hitting the panicbutton and ordering everyone cut down, which is where the other spirits using powers to keep his stuff shut down until they can withdraw comes in.

These guys just wanted to leave unmolested.

[odinson]

Thats the problem, they wanted to leave unmolested, the rigger didn't. It should have played out into a combat. All the drones that you used accident on would have had to roll crash test. Remember it would have been the drones and not the rigger as he cannot directly control them unless he was jumped into one. The engulfed drone would have probably been destroyed, the ones that didn't crash would have opened fire. most of the gang that showed up would have been gunned down. The leader would have burnt a point of edge and miraculously escaped into a manhole outside the bunker and the drones wouldn't have seen it. Then the conflict would have escalated to the point that the rigger brought it to.

This would have left the rigger attacked by spirits until he got the bunker warded and then you would have the place covered by jammers and the wifi blocking paint. After the rigger was locked in his bunker with no outside communications, the gang would just waylay anyone who came to resupply him. The nurse that came every few days wouldn't come. The doc wouldn't call anyone for fear of being killed. I wouldn't think that groceries would even deliver out to the barrens so whomever he pays handsomely to get food for him would stop showing up. When you have the game sessions put him in the basement playing xbox when people show up and when they ask where he is say that they cannot get a hold of him on the comm and unless they go check out his place then nothing comes of it. After a few days he calls the gangers for a meet and apologizes and offers to pay protection like a good little barren resident. You up the lifestyle cost to high and if he doesn't cough up the money they kill him and loot his bunker.

[Cellshade]

[sunnyside]

Ok, odison is a little off on how that would probably go down.

The trick is actually filtering things through the mechanics. And remember in SR defense is weaker than offense. That's somewhat deliberate. Meaning that the best defence is a good offence but the converse is not true.

Spirits do not pop out of nowhere, they materialize and it takes a complex action. Which means unless the materialize out of the way the rigger will know somethings up before it happens, and I imagine the point of his having a panic button in the first place is that he can use it with a free action.

Which means the signal would go out.

What I would advise.

1. Have the player fix his char. With the costs associated with the warehouse, especially if it has extra security, and the avatar, which wasn't in your posted char, he's something like 50BP over. Also not that he didn't upgrade the computer systems in his drones, so they operate at pilot3 + autosoft 3 and can only load 3 programs. If one of those programs isn't analyze those drones are just as likely to work for even a crappy hacker as they are to work for the rigger. Even then spoof will work all too often. Anyway the point is by the time he straightens things out he won't be as potent.

2. If the gang has some nuyen at all give them weapons with some DV or tasers. You can still keep things cheap that way. Or give them a little Stick and shock with any cheap gun. Maybe just a couple rounds each. That's pretty easy actually. Just have sticks use spells instead of the shotgun and buy everyboy a little S&S and tell them to just load a couple as the first rounds.


So probably give the spirits less discretion one when to spawn. But have the one behind the rigger ready. Sticks can communicate with it via the link spellcasters have with their spirits.

Since the spirits aren't so jumpy (you don't want the spirits initiating combat as it'd be surprise rolls that the gangers are as likely to miss as not miss.) The box to rip off would probably not be a problem.

I predict however that things would rapidly go south from there.

Because he's trying to dupe them with fake weapons

Sticks will likely send someone forward to check them out, 80's movie style. And it's likely that combat will result. Exactly how that goes down varies but the gangers assuming it's a trap or just being pissed is somewhat likely. Mind you they would, if possible like to get out and have spirits get vengence remotley. Sticks didn't get where he is today getting in unessesary fights on the other guys turf. Especially when the other guy has heavy weapons. Really I'm guessing he didn't get where his is by agreeing to go into somebodies killzone for a meet.


Anyway, drones, unless loaded with defense, don't get a full defense option, and use pilot+- handling instead of reaction. Which for his drones is 3, and nothing if the drones are surprised. Also each subsequent attack is at -1 so they'll rapidly be rolling nothing to not get hit. And edge won't help here. Their initiative isn't all that great either at a 6. Though they get extra passes. So odds are some gangers will get to go first and will land some respectable electricity attacks. Hopefully dropping a few or at least putting on enough modifiers that a ganger on full defense can get off the spot. If sticks goes early a spell could do a lot of damage, and AOE spell could possibly drop a bunch of drones.

Drones without defense won't hold off engulfs coupled with electric aura, so the spirits who are still pretty quick will probably start dropping drones fast. After the first pass. Wait are all the other spirits force 3? That starts getting a bit weak. Note that gunfire will rip them to shreds.

Also sticks would absolutly have the spirit with the rigger materialize IMEDIATLY. It will at the least force the rigger to deal with the spirit. He may well come out on top, but he'll be spending edge like water and won't be rigging for that time. Giving the spirits and gangers a chance to deal with the drones.

A fireing retreat is not a good option at this point. As I said offense is better. If the gangers run the rigger will just gleefully mow them down. I think this could be an interesting battle.

Oh and make sure sticks has a respectable dodge with bullets spec. If you don't want him dying he'll probably have to use a lot of running (for +2 die) and full defense. Drones would be rolling 8 die (pilot + autosoft+ smartlink) to hit him but with reaction 4 and dodge(firearms) 3(5) plus running (2) he's opposing with 11. If you have him sustain a increase reaction spell (or maybe increase reflexes but for meets reaction is probably better), which I strongly strongly advise if he isn't supposed to secretly be a retard. Note the drain is low enough that he can recast without much risk of stun until he gets a nice 4 or 5 bonus. At that point he'd be rolling 11 die without full def and 16 with. giving him a chance to survive. And with the increased reaction the odds of coming out on top of a surprise or initiative based siuation are pretty good.

Anyway I'd just play things out. It could be an exciting battle and I couldn't say for sure how things would go. Depends on the exact numbers you give the gangers and what your player is after shaving off 50BP.


Give him a chance though. I mean what does it really hurt you if things start going his way?

And do it sometime when the other players aren't around.

Oh who am I kidding. This is way to long for a post, at least people here tend to be polite enough not to drop a tl;dr .

[Wounded Ronin]

[Cain]

I think that if you wanted the interior spirits to not kill the Rigger outright, they should materialize and start ligthning-bolting all the equipment in sight. That'll take out his drones and outside security real quick, leaving him helples.

Even though he's a poor man's Mr. Lucky, he can't spend Edge on behalf of his equipment, just him. Nonmagical items don't get resistance tests, so there's nothing he can spend Edge on-- every use of Edge affects dice rolls. He could burn a point or two, but that'd get really expensive really quickly, and solve a lot of future problems.

To further limit him, you can always rule that he can only spend Edge on drone's he's jumped into, and not ones he's captain's chairing. Also, you can rule that autosofts, like skillsofts, override natural skill, soo he can't spend edge on any task with an autosoft.

[Whipstitch]

I think big, cheap guns is the way to go here. The gangers may be poor, but a Ruger Warhawk is still only 250 cred. Hell, even an AK-97 assault rifle and the Remington 990 clock in at under 600. Hell, if you want, it'd be easy enough to just make up your own cheap shotgun, if it makes you feel better. Take the remington 990 for a baseline, shave off a point of AP, halve the size of the magazine and cut the cost by 150 credits, and voila, you have a cheap 7DV (with slugs) 4 round 20 gauge shotgun for under 500 nuyen. That's less than two months bus fare.