 Mind probe, how do you deal with it? |
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 Jul 20 2007, 07:24 PM
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#1
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 40 Joined: 26-May 06 Member No.: 8,607  |
I am a pretty new GM and I have problems dealing with my mage's Mind Probe...
As my games usually have a part of investigation, it can really screw up my plans when they get their hand on someone and Mind Probe him. I know the target realizes he is mind probed, but still. If they ever get their hands on a villain, they can make him spill the beans without even sweating... How do you deal wih Mind Probe in your games? |
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Jul 20 2007, 07:42 PM
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#2
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Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
A couple of different ways;
( 1 ) Mindraping people is nasty, and every mundane "knows" from the Trid that you can also make them forget whatever you want as well as convince them to eat their own children. You'd be better off telling people that you are a Bloodmage. ( 2 ) Using either magic or drugs to lower your target's Willpower holds a danger of giving false results. ( 3 ) Don't ever try it on a sleeping target if you want to gleam anything even remotely useful. ( 4 ) The baddies understand that Mindraping Mages exist so they are going to use the "need to know" standard, and your average sec guard or grunt really doesn't need to know all the much. |
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Jul 20 2007, 07:42 PM
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#3
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
Some teams have good interrogation skills, other teams don't. Some teams get good intelligence from the Matrix, others don't. Some teams are good at astral recon, social legwork, drone overflight, or whatever... and other groups don't.
What avenues of investigation are open to different groups is a major indicator of how they will accomplish missions. And having Mind Probe is functionally similar to having a face with a high Intimidation check. -Frank |
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Jul 20 2007, 07:44 PM
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#4
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The Dragon Never Sleeps Group: Admin Posts: 6,924 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,667 |
Scanners....
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Jul 20 2007, 07:44 PM
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#5
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
There is a thing like 'too much hits' when mind-probing.
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Jul 20 2007, 07:49 PM
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#6
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Target Group: Members Posts: 40 Joined: 26-May 06 Member No.: 8,607 |
It's easy to roleplay an interrogation, and matrix searches rarely give much detail on the cases they work on. I want my players to actually think a bit and then roleplay, and not just rolling dice. How do I roleplay a Mind Probe? "Okay you have managed to enter in his head (with his 14 dice, it's easy...), ask a question, I just have to answer." Great... |
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Jul 20 2007, 07:51 PM
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#7
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Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
Why don't you "walk" the Mage through the target's memories? Flashes of completely unrelated bits of the target's past, the "capture" through the target's eyes, the fear and anger at being mindraped...
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Jul 20 2007, 07:54 PM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 472 Joined: 14-June 07 Member No.: 11,909 |
What's the deal? If the target gets captured and is then interrogated, it doesn't matter anymore if he gets physically tortured, mindraped by a mind-probe, given a truth serum or forced to watch America Superstars if the Runners believe that the target might know something.
There are still other and better opportunities to play out another scene. |
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Jul 20 2007, 07:58 PM
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#9
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
Unless you are polishing your target until they are shiny, the word is "glean". [/grammar nazi pet peeve mode] Although this was possibly just a typo. :-) |
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Jul 20 2007, 08:06 PM
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#10
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
I'm not a fan of the "mind probe means we win" strategy, either, and I have posted a decent amount on Mind Probe, but it's all in relation to SR3. Still, if any of it is helpful, there you go.
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Jul 20 2007, 08:27 PM
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#11
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Never forget the aftereffects. Assuming they don't immediately kill everyone they mind probe they'll be generating a trail. If they aren't all disguised when it happens, they'll be generating a trail that the police sketch programs can add lots of details to. Even if they are all disguised, they probably just disguised their face, so the trail will have some extra info in it.
Eventually something will happen and that trail will come back to haunt them. Also, very few people will enjoy having their deepest thoughts ripped away from them. While the vast majority of mind probe targets won't be important people, eventually someone who knows somebody who knows somebody will get probed and go looking for a little payback. |
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Jul 20 2007, 08:30 PM
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#12
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,246 Joined: 8-June 07 Member No.: 11,869 |
In real life, interrogations take several hours. How is that easy to roleplay? It's not like Austin Powers where you just have to ask 3 times and they always answer you. |
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Jul 20 2007, 08:32 PM
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#13
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...like eidolon, I've already said my peace on this in previous threads.
For my current SRIII campaign, there is no such spell. This includes for PC mages, NPC mages Spirits, GDs, IEs, Drop Bears, Space Aliens... |
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Jul 20 2007, 08:35 PM
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#14
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,246 Joined: 8-June 07 Member No.: 11,869 |
You meant to say interrogation, not Mind Probe right? The target doesn't ever need to see you if you use Mind Probe (especially with ritual magic or an extended range version), but with interrogation, he has hours to memorize your face and your voice. |
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Jul 20 2007, 08:52 PM
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#15
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
True, if they're discreet about it Mind Probe is safer, but you're still developing a trail. And how often are runners consistently discreet? :)
If they're casting the spell at a decent force, the odds are pretty good you're going to see it. Since you need three net hits and your total hits are limited to your force, you'll almost always be using at least force 5. That puts the threshold at 1. If they cast it at force 6 or higher it will automatically be noticed by everyone around. |
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Jul 20 2007, 08:54 PM
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#16
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,246 Joined: 8-June 07 Member No.: 11,869 |
As a fully sentient AI private investigator, I'm both discreet and discrete. :D
It's true what you said about a high force mind probe though. Follow up with an Alter Memory spell, and all is well. Personally, I like Influence...they actually think it was their idea to tell you everything! |
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Jul 20 2007, 09:06 PM
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#17
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,246 Joined: 8-June 07 Member No.: 11,869 |
I agree with Particle Beam. In fact, I would say Mind Probe would generate a lot LESS blowback than interrogation, torture, and drugs. |
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Jul 20 2007, 09:10 PM
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#18
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Target Group: Members Posts: 95 Joined: 23-June 07 Member No.: 11,998 |
"Your target looks at you with unmitigated fear on his face. Beads of sweat crowd and drip from his forehead as you prepare your spell. He begins to murmur softly, tears welling as you begin to press into his mind. You begin to sift past his surface level of fear, past all the trid shows he's seen about being mindraped, all the hate and revulsion he feels, past his sense of sense of shame, you begin to dredge up what you feel might be relevant information. You begin to dig.. ... You slowly come back to yourself, as you teamates look at you askance. Your victim lies, huddled, on the floor. He clutches his head, rocking back and forth, mumbling and softly crying to himself." |
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Jul 20 2007, 10:03 PM
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#19
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
Solomon Greene, you are now my other favorite GM in regard to Mind Probe.
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Jul 20 2007, 10:04 PM
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#20
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Target Group: Members Posts: 95 Joined: 23-June 07 Member No.: 11,998 |
Thank you!
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Jul 20 2007, 10:13 PM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 472 Joined: 14-June 07 Member No.: 11,909 |
My victims tend to be gagged and bound, so that they can't even move and resist physically, nor scream all too loud. Helps to make sure the people don't commit suicide before they've got interrogated, and doesn't call any cops or other noisy do-gooder in vicinity to investigate.
Really, does it matter anymore if you use drugs, violence, sexual coercion, mind-probes or a record of the Tele-Tubbies to get the informations out of your victim? You're playing a criminal for hire, after all. |
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Jul 20 2007, 10:20 PM
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#22
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
VR interrogation is always nice, too: With hot ASIST, the limit really just is your imagination...
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Jul 20 2007, 10:35 PM
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#23
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...dangling them out the back of a cargo jet flying at 2,000M altitude over the Atlantic on a spectra fibre rope works pretty good too. :grinbig:
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Jul 20 2007, 10:36 PM
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#24
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Target Group: Members Posts: 40 Joined: 26-May 06 Member No.: 8,607 |
agreed :) |
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Jul 20 2007, 11:03 PM
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#25
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Target Group: Members Posts: 95 Joined: 23-June 07 Member No.: 11,998 |
shrugs Criminal does not always equal sociopathic or psychotic. Some people have standards. I know my hardened criminals draw the line at rape - mind or otherwise. They also won't touch kids. What a weakness, eh? Damn drugless hippies. I'd love to have a heroin addicted pc in my group. |
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