 Augmentation |
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 Jul 27 2007, 11:16 PM
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#151
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Hoppelhäschen 5000  Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951  |
Good to know, thanks.
Hm. Is it just me, or are there no actual rules concerning the detection of Genetech, though Masking has an option of increasing the threshold by 1? And what exactly does the 'free' of the Genetic Heriditage quality mean? No Nuyen? No Essence? Both? |
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Jul 27 2007, 11:20 PM
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#152
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 |
The absence of DNA scanners is at least partially an unfortunate result of the change in the release schedule. Arsenal will contain such forensic devices, we had expected it to be out first. Those who need a rule can use the Diagnostics rules in the Medtech chapter.
"Free" refers to the nuyen cost only. |
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Jul 27 2007, 11:44 PM
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#153
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 932 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Orlando, Florida Member No.: 1,042 |
Spidersilk Gland combines nicely with Gecko Hands. But hey, Spidersilk Gland has a million uses...you are your own ducttape factory!
I'm still very excited about Radar Sensor and APDS...I'm going to kill three or four PCs at least. :cyber: |
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Jul 28 2007, 12:13 AM
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#154
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...so, is the Chemical Gland back? The preview didn't include any sample Bioware that I could see.
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Jul 28 2007, 12:23 AM
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#155
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Yep. The cybernetic version has been expanded, too, and there's a few other options as well. It's a really good book. :)
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Jul 28 2007, 12:31 AM
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#156
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,159 Joined: 12-April 07 From: Ork Underground Member No.: 11,440 |
Ok some questions certain items have a capacity
Breast Implants [2] Penile Implants [1] Does this mean sensors/items can be installed in the above? Cameras? :D Commlink [2] Datajack [1] Olfactory Booster [2] Ultrasound Sensor [2] Why does a pair of cybereyes have more capacity than Eyebands? ie Eyebands cost more in essence and have less capacity than the similar type of cybereyes? |
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Jul 28 2007, 12:33 AM
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#157
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...cool I can now revive Night Angel. :grinbig: [edit]
...hmmm....Capacity 2...Ares Predators...Cyborg rules...FemBots. ....groooovy baby! |
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Jul 28 2007, 12:42 AM
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#158
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Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
Umm, things with [ 3 ] capacity means that the item uses 3 capacity points, not that it has capacity.
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Jul 28 2007, 12:49 AM
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#159
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Mystery Archaeologist Group: Members Posts: 2,906 Joined: 19-September 05 From: The apple tree Member No.: 7,760 |
So I can get Breast Implants in my cyberarms. Neat!
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Jul 28 2007, 12:50 AM
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#160
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Twenty meters a day... of course, it can be dissolved by an enzyme, so watch out for people having exactly the same idea, but a chemical gland for that enzyme, too...
Keep the excitement - it has only 4 dice for perception tests and will most likely exist as an external device, too. Of course, the Ultrasound vision modieifers make even less sense here... neither sound nor radar care whether the light is on or off. |
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Jul 28 2007, 12:51 AM
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#161
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Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
Sure why not, although I think any decent street doc would recomend that you install them into your cybertorso if you were wanting to go that route.
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Jul 28 2007, 12:53 AM
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#162
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,159 Joined: 12-April 07 From: Ork Underground Member No.: 11,440 |
ahh ok so what does one use of the capacity of when one implants breasts or penis? I do believe you have misread that. Cyber eyes, cyber ears have a capacity rating of x lacking the [ ]. So you think that one can put a pair of breast implants in rating 4 cybereyes? :) or hair implants? or commlink? The usage of the capacities with and with out the [ ], needs to be explained in detail. |
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Jul 28 2007, 12:54 AM
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#163
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Capacity also seems to be a variable stat. What I mean is, a Cybereye has more Capacity (16 for Rating 4) than an entire standard Cyberarm (15). Worse, I don't see any mention that they are different, so you could arguably cram all kinds of ridiculous things into a pair of Cybereyes. Say, 16 seperate and distinct Datajacks just as an extreme example. Thus Capacity has to be dependant upon the items being discussed, which just confuses what should have been a very simple and elegant system.
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Jul 28 2007, 12:56 AM
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#164
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Target Group: Members Posts: 24 Joined: 3-December 05 Member No.: 8,040 |
Or a cyber grenade launcher with an external clip port :) If breast implants cost 2 capacity I'm getting 2 installed in my cyberhand |
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Jul 28 2007, 01:10 AM
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#165
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Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
Well assuming that you want a "normal body image" then you would want to install your sexual organs into a cybertorso, although I guess you could install a penis in your cyberskull if you really wanted to as well.
*Shrugs* Let's dig into the books and see who has misread what then.
And if you notice, every last piece of headware uses the [ x ] format to indicate the amount of capacity that it uses.
Notice that in this table, all of the before mentioned subsystems use the [ x ] format to indicate how much capacity they cost, while the listings for cybereyes themselves don't.
Here the same thing holds true as with the cybereyes listings, you know, I think we may be seeing a pattern here.
Hmm, just like headware, everything that has a capacity rating uses the [ x ] format.
Hmm, and just like with eyeware and earware, the actual limbs themselves use the x format to tell us how much capacity they can hold while all of the accessories use the [ x ] format in order to tell us how much capacity they use. So unless you really think that the devs meant for an implanted grenade launcher to be able to have as much "goodies" installed into it as a full cyberarm then it's clear that you are mistaken when they use the same format in AUG. |
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Jul 28 2007, 01:17 AM
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#166
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,159 Joined: 12-April 07 From: Ork Underground Member No.: 11,440 |
I guess you could call that character Breast Hands McGurk? :D |
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Jul 28 2007, 01:20 AM
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#167
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,159 Joined: 12-April 07 From: Ork Underground Member No.: 11,440 |
Ravor I stand corrected. :)
But the system they are using does not scale well, as one above has stated, cyber eyes have a greater capacity that a cyberarm? |
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Jul 28 2007, 01:24 AM
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#168
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Re: Ravor.
Eh? All you described above was that "X" was how much Capacity an item could hold and "[ X ]" was how much Capacity an item takes up. Which wasn't all that confusing to begin with, at least not to me. None of the rules you cited, however, indicate that Capacity isn't a universal stat. Which it obviously isn't, but the rules never specifically state as much. The only limitations found in your quotes are reverse of the problem. "Eyeware subsystems [...] take up Capacity in a cybereye." Not "the Capacity of a cybereye can only be used up by eyeware subsystems, and eyeware subsystems can only be installed into cybereyes." The lack of such a restriction means you can, in fact, put a pair of cybernetic breasts or a rocket launcher into a cybereye by the rules, absolutely ridiculous as it is. It goes beyond merely cyberware, too. Take sensor systems as a prime example. Or why Commlinks don't have a Capacity limit for accessories, or armor doesn't have a Capacity limit for armor modifications. It's a rule with great potential, and one that's definitely been needed for a long time. It's just been poorly executed. :( |
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Jul 28 2007, 01:33 AM
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#169
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Maybe someone should write a definitive thesis on the intent of the SR4 capacity rules.
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Jul 28 2007, 01:45 AM
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#170
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Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
Well to be fair Doctor Funkenstein I wasn't trying to address the issue of whether or not Capacity was an universal stat or not in my post, I was indeed only responding to the notion of what [ x ] verus x meant on the tables.
However, Synner has stated today that the intent was that cybereyes can only use eyeware, so that is a good enough answer for me provided that they remember to errata the Bounty Hunter sample character. *Edit* Also considering that a poster just made the same mistake in Synner's offical thread claiming that penis implants have capacity as opposed to using capacity appearently the issue is more confusing then you or I thought it could possibly be. |
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Jul 28 2007, 02:08 AM
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#171
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Well, it's not an entirely intuitive shorthand until you get used to it, I'll admit that. As soon as someone starts putting some pieces together that has a Capacity along with accessories that eat up that Capacity, it quickly clicks. That's true of a lot of shorthand in this game and others, though.
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Jul 28 2007, 02:14 AM
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#172
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,159 Joined: 12-April 07 From: Ork Underground Member No.: 11,440 |
Well the addition and description of the single cyber eye opens things up abit, ie the single cyber eye can be installed in places other than ones face.
Why would a cybernetic balance tail not take up any capacity in a cyber torso when a penile implants does? Both basically hang outside the torso along with the breasts they are outside the rib cage. The argument that it takes up capacity in a cyber torso is a poor attempt to explain a why such has a capacity using bracket when other devices lack any capacity note at all. How much capacity does a Synthacardium take from a cyber torso? Yes it is bioware but would it not take up space in a cyber torso? How much space does Cerebral Booster take up in a cyber skull? How much space does cat eyes or troll eyes take from a cyber skull, cyber eyes do? |
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Jul 28 2007, 02:18 AM
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#173
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
The base cyberlimb rules in SR4 talks about a few of those points, specifically bioware in torsos and skulls (both of which are mostly just shells rather than proper cyberlimbs). All your organs are still flesh and blood.
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Jul 28 2007, 02:23 AM
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#174
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,159 Joined: 12-April 07 From: Ork Underground Member No.: 11,440 |
Nanohive uses a capacity of 2. It is not defined as hard or soft.
Is nanoware bioware or cyberware by the rules on taking up capacity? Correction it is under the title of Nanocybernetics Bodyware. Now what does that mean in regards to using capacity in a cybernetic limb? Again the example of the cyberware balance tail versus the penile implant. Neither take up space in the torso. |
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Jul 28 2007, 02:31 AM
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#175
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 986 Joined: 29-June 07 Member No.: 12,093 |
Nanocyberware counts as cyberware but plain ol' Nanoware doesn't have an Essence cost.
I think only the Nanohive itself takes up capacity, meaning it's the only Nanocyberware that can be implanted in cyberware. And the Nanohive is an actual 'thing' not a set of 'nanites'. It does have back-up storage for nanites so it can replenish both soft and hard nanobots. |
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