Big War in SR Options

[Snow_Fox]

To raise a thought inspired by a closed thread- how many of your campaigns get involved in big wars? Sure there's chinese war lords who skirmish, the Japanese in CFS and Aztecs in yucitan, probably weirdo's killing each other from the nile to the irrawaddy just as they have for millennia, but How many big wars? Most major cultures seem to have learned that it is incredibly costly in man power and resources. 1914 was the last time great powers went to war because they thought it was just an extension of Politics. Even at the depth of the Cold War the soviets backed away from the step of open war.

sure there's subversive stuff going on- James Bond, navy SeALs, Blackhawk Down but what does UCAS, CAS, France, UK etc do with armored divisions? Strategic bomber squadrons?

[Ravor]

Every now and I again I use a "real war" as a backdrop, but it's seldom more then that.

[fistandantilus4....]

I've worked out a number of small scale battles, mostly merc groups and such. That way I can and have involved them with larger scale wars, such as in Poland, but have an easy out for them as well. For me, it was jsut easier than having them deeply entrenched in a military heirarchy.

[Kagetenshi]

Yeah, the bad thing about involving characters in the military is that the entire point of the structure is that a lot of the larger decision-making ability is specifically denied them. I remember playing in a Vietnam war meets Call of Cthulhu game once, and after a few games the GM had to kill off the NCO and promote one of the players because it was getting too hard to justify us doing things other than what we were directly ordered to do.

~J

[Snow_Fox]

I was thinking in terms of what they rerally do with the stuff. there's lots of SR stuff on the side- most 1980's action movies- but unless the players want to play like 1st Squad, 3rd Platoon, Baker Company, 312th Infantry Regiment of the 1st Infantry Division, what the heck does the government do with them?

[fistandantilus4....]

[FrankTrollman]

It's just like normal shadowrunning, save that you only have one fixer and he doesn't give you choices of jobs.

-Frank

[Snow_Fox]

you guys are missing my point. We all know what the black ops stuff is out there. My question is what the flock are the grunts doing? what do you do qirth 40 MBT's in a regiment?

[Prae]

[mfb]

i think you'd have to do a Mogadishu/Iraq-style war for it to work. pitched open-field battles are a) kinda boring, for most runners, and b) unlikely to occur in 2070. tense patrols through occupied territory, factional politics--that could work.

[Kagetenshi]

Trench warfare is totally going to make a comeback. You mark my words!

~J

[fistandantilus4....]

[FrankTrollman]

[Kagetenshi]

If the 40 MBTs are unrigged and alone, they probably won't die. By the same token, if the 40 MBTs are really delicious cake, they could have a feast.

~J

[Wounded Ronin]

Well, I suppose there are a couple solutions I can think of for the rigidity of a military command structure in a war based SR game.

The first solution is to be less realistic and a little more schlocky and Mission: Impossible style. "Your mission, should you choose to accept it..." and then you don't have to accept it. Like they're all suicide missions or something and that's why they're sending the equivalent of Blackwater mercs instead of using Army regulars whose deaths would be politically damaging.

The second solution is to borrow from Twilight 2000 and say the PCs are part of a militrary but they're isolated, cut off, and base just radioed in to tell them that they're on their own because there are no resources that can possibly come to their assistance. This gives the PCs freedom of action to do whatever they feel is appropriate deep behind enemy lines.

I suppose that you could also play with the rigidity rather than against it. You could make part of the game fighting the federal bureaucracy. Have the PCs have a terrible commanding officer who is insecure, micromanaging, and who hides in his tent with guards all the time. However, there are perhaps a couple of ways to get around this horrendous mismanagement, for example taking advantage of contacts to get supplies (it turns out someone who can give you extra ammo is happy to do so because you went to his alma mater) or using paperwork-fu to get reassigned. I suppose that would personally interest me, from a historical perspective, to fight not only enemies, but also realistically modeled bureaucracy.

[FrankTrollman]

[Lazarus]

Yeah I've played in the Big War game in SR. The Lazarus character fought in the Euro Wars, the CAS vs. Aztlan & the Tir, One against the JIS in China, North Korea, and Vietnam, and another one in Cuba against the Aztlan again. Lazarus was SF, Force Recon CASMC, as were the other PC's but we played out their early careers, well two PC's early careers, in a three session prelude when they were in the Fleet as grunts in a MEU/SOC.

We did it mostly to form the bond that the two characters had. We did a small part of a session with them going through Boot Camp. Made some rolls to see how they did and what not, stuff like that. It was pretty cool because they could actually had Sea Stories like about the time the one character got handcuffed to a woman on a beach in Ibiza who only spoke French. Happened after a wicked night of party and a botched Body roll.

Actually something like a Big War campaign is going to have more rping then anything else if you're not playing SF. Shadowrun is basically set up for SF like others have already pointed out. But you can go big and play Generals, Politicos, Corporate Peeps who send people to war. There it's pretty much rping and if roll it would be social based skill and CHA checks.

On the other hand you can play life as a grunt which means it can get pretty boring most of the time. However you still have to go out on patrols, help set up an infrastructure if you're peacekeeping, all kinds of scenarios in that one.

[Talia Invierno]

I've used wars as major campaign aspects, although never the Desert Wars.

In-game, I tend initially to work with the small, at-first-glance isolated incidents. It's entirely up to the characters if they want to try to pull the pieces together to figure out the larger picture before the shit hits the fan. It's a curious point, even in real life, that those caught in the middle of wars rarely have a wider sense of what is going on.

In character background, one PC I've GMed discovered in-game that he was the bastard son of a soldier who'd been left for dead on the battlefield, and who had decided to leave it that way.

One PC I've played was a mercenary on medical leave: the campaign began in the standard Seattle setting and war stayed comfortably distant in that one. None of the PCs I've GMed were ever in the military ... voluntarily. (If you ever want to see really pissed-off PCs, conscript them.)

[Prae]

Okay, so where can we find the answers to the big questions, namely:

1. Do you need a SIN to enlist.

2. Do they allow combat cyberware in recruits.

3. Can I get an Officer's Commission if I've Initiated.

4. Do I finally get to use my Pilot (Anthroform) skill?

etc.

I mean, is there a sourcebook anywhere that covers these? I can't remember reading about them anywhere...

[Ravor]

( 1 ) Yep, if you don't have a SIN then you're not a person, and only people can enlist. However if you don't mind getting your hands dirty I'm sure they can find something for you to do, and if you're lucky enough to live they might even issue you a SIN at the end of your contract. (Don't hold your breath though, most of the time they just re-up you until you die or desert.)

( 2 ) I don't see why not, but if you don't want thrown in with the SINless dogs you'd best make sure that all of your permits are in order. Oh, unless you are going in for life, don't even think about getting anything 'Forbidden'.

( 3 ) Are you saying that you're a Mage and aren't talented enough to be an officer already? What a loser. :cyber:

( 4 ) Not sure about Third Edition, in Fourth just wait until we can pull the answer out of our ARSEs.

[PBTHHHHT]

[treehugger]

[sunnyside]

My players tended to get scared around war. (when dumped in). Unless your GM is a softie or you're avoiding heavy combat it's a dengerous life when weaponry capable of vaporizing you is flying all over the place.

I guess in SR4 that wouldn't be quite so bad since you can just burn edge to miraculously survive.

On the issue of big battles you could try using a computer to automate a lot of stuff. You rolling for forty guys shooting at 20 tanks would take a long time. But a comp could do it really fast.

Still I like having the runners operating largely independently. (for example they're hired to take out an enemy position or defend something. Or get supplies moved from point A to point B.

This isn't far out there at all. Semi independed mercenaries are a huge part of the SR military scene (at least back in the fields of fire days). And there are lots of war. Recently the tir was fighting with californa for instance.

And there is always Desert Wars (the corps fighting out in the Sahara as part reality show, part testing ground, and part one upmanship).

And it sounds like a lot of africa is still at war. I wouldn't be surprised to find that much of south america is a warzone either.

[Kyoto Kid]

...RIS participants beware the Bovine drop platform is in geosynch over Europe.

[ Spoiler ]

In the next stage of RiS the PCs are just about to go into a war zone. The catch is that both sides of the confrontation are equally dangerous if approached the wrong way.

[Wounded Ronin]

Yeah, the French Foreign Leigon is extremely badass. I heard they try to provide beer and wine at lunch! I can just imagine some Leigonnaire commiting acts of incredible violence and then sipping some wine. Very Conan-esque.