 Augmentation Q&A, Ask the developers and the authors |
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 Aug 10 2007, 03:36 AM
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#451
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Running Target  Group: Members Posts: 1,246 Joined: 8-June 07 Member No.: 11,869  |
And not just a one sentence mention in the cosmetic biosculpting section either. They each got magnum sized and D sized paragraphs respectively. Quick question why would you want to limit the word count? I can tell you that as a customer, I prefer to get more words for my money. Does it really cost more to print a few more pages? (there's no way it costs more to produce a larger PDF file) |
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Aug 10 2007, 03:42 AM
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#452
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 327 Joined: 28-January 06 Member No.: 8,209 |
Layout, editing, some authors getting paid by the word/page (though I don't know if this applies to SR rulebooks)?... Yes, it very well might cost significantly more to produce a longer PDF. |
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Aug 10 2007, 03:55 AM
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#453
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
Such as Shadowrun Authors are paid at all, they are paid by the word.
So each Shadowrun Author has to stay in a specific limited word count or their piece gets rejected for being in breach of contract. Printers also charge by the page I think - but I'm not super sure on exactly how that works. -Frank |
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Aug 10 2007, 04:10 AM
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#454
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,978 Joined: 26-February 02 From: New Jersey, USA Member No.: 500 |
I seem to recall from somewhere Adam? saying that sourcebooks were printed such that they paid per "unit" of 16 pages or something.
Frank: So how the heck do they determine the number of words? Counting manually? ("One, two, three, four...five hundred, five hundred and one, five hundred and - fuck I've lost track of my counting!") |
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Aug 10 2007, 04:11 AM
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#455
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Most word processors and similar programs keep track of that for you automatically. Have for... like... decades.
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Aug 10 2007, 04:21 AM
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#456
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
And before that, editors used to have formulas for how many words appeared per page of typewritten manuscript. That's why they threw such hissy fits any time people changed fonts on their typewriters. The editting community is so tradition bound that many of them still want specific typefaces and font sizes even though of course word processors will just tell them how many words there are.
-Frank |
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Aug 10 2007, 07:41 AM
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#457
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 |
Books have standardized pagecounts which equate to a certain production cost. Writers exceeding allocated wordcounts for assignments can lead to increased pagecounts which in turn may force overall price increases - you can't add a page or two to a book, you have to add a block of pages (16 pages usually). There are also increases to the costs of editing and layout. We always include some flex room in assignments, but a couple of authors coming in 1000 words over their assignments because they got carried away or the material "really needed it" (not uncommon, I've done it myself more than a couple of times) can start you down that slippery road.
Formulas are good and they don't have to be too complex. As long as you know the typical wordcount for a page after layout, you can run with that. |
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Aug 10 2007, 07:47 AM
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#458
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 |
That's a large part of how I envision it too, but through the years Shadowrun has explored various approaches with varying degrees of success. We chose to leave it hazy enough to acknowledge those other possibilities and allow for other interpretations. |
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Aug 10 2007, 12:27 PM
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#459
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,246 Joined: 8-June 07 Member No.: 11,869 |
I've got to say I'm very impressed with Augmentation. There is a ton of stuff in there (even with the low word count :D ). The crunch is great, all the new technology is really interesting and the fluff is entertaining and actually helpful. I like the explanations of how the various technologies are built and brought to market and there's even some cool information on nanoforges. I remember in the old SR2 game that the rules for cyberzombies were pretty vague, so the extensive clarifications in Augmentation are great.
You guys have done a great job anticipating detail-oriented questions that I tend to come up with. For example, as I was reading the section on cyborgs, I was thinking to myself "what does it take to maintain these things?" and boom there's the answer in the next paragraph including rules on what happens to you if you start missing sessions. I especially appreciated the detail in the Radar sensor section, it answered every single one of my questions right in that one section (with page references) and that's hard to do! Thanks for the great job! |
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Aug 10 2007, 12:59 PM
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#460
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
edit: never mind...
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Aug 10 2007, 01:28 PM
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#461
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Target Group: Members Posts: 57 Joined: 11-July 07 Member No.: 12,213 |
Hey, one question about the Trauma Damper:
When you get stun damage, the damage is reduced by one. So if I only get one point stun damage it is reduced to none? This question is critical about Fatigue Damage (S. 155 SR4), Holding Your Breath (S. 119 SR4) and Treading Water (S. 119 SR4). If this the stun damage is reduced to zero, I can hold breath forever, because I don't get any damage... Coldan Rohenstein |
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Aug 10 2007, 01:52 PM
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#462
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Indeed. The oldest exploit of the Trauma Dampener - that still isn't fixed.
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Aug 10 2007, 01:59 PM
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#463
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,978 Joined: 26-February 02 From: New Jersey, USA Member No.: 500 |
Yay. (For those who never learned about this, Wikipedia actually provides a decent reference here. Well, it's not perfect, but it's a start.) Thus, to explain why cosmetic -whatever- costs essence: Because it modifies, in some distinct way, your 'natural self'. Why doesn't a prosthetic <whatever> cost essence? Because it's -restoring-, to a degree, your natural self. Remember, cybereyes give even people without naturally perfect vision just that. In SR4, you even have a recording unit in them. Even an unmodified cyberlimb, no matter how discreet it may be, still is a variance from one's 'natural template', so to speak. After all, you can't normally turn off sensory input from your limbs. (Note: This explains -why essence exists- and why things -cost- essence. However, it doesn't explain why X costs Y essence.) |
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Aug 10 2007, 02:24 PM
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#464
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 327 Joined: 28-January 06 Member No.: 8,209 |
The easy house-rule is, of course, alter it to be "If you take stun damage, Trauma Damper reduces it by 1 box to a minimum of 1". That's how other damage-reducing things work, isn't it? |
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Aug 10 2007, 02:25 PM
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#465
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 398 Joined: 16-August 06 Member No.: 9,130 |
Is it possible that it is meant to work this way, since they carried it over from SR3? Surely they had to have been informed of this problem in the previous version, and one would think such a mistake would have not been repeated. Maybe the trauma dampener is meant to prevent your body from being fatigued by holding your breath and treading water. It is surprising they didn't put the same note they have for platelet factories and said you have to take a minimum of 2 damage for it to negate the damage. This almost seems like it could have been deliberate. |
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Aug 10 2007, 02:39 PM
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#466
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Target Group: Members Posts: 57 Joined: 11-July 07 Member No.: 12,213 |
Sure, you can make a house rule for this, but I'm also gamemaster at conventions and I hate discussions with players, when they want to exploit this. Because they don't want to have such house rules... Also, if nobody mention it, it won't be fixed in any errata. |
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Aug 10 2007, 03:01 PM
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#467
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 398 Joined: 16-August 06 Member No.: 9,130 |
I agree, I go to the Gencon in INDY yearly. You really do not know what to expect going in with rules. For newcomer games it does not really matter as much. But for veteran games where you have people that have been able to form ideas on how the rules work, it can become rather troublesome. I do not think I would call negating the fatigue with trauma dampeners an exploit. It is something fully allowable in the rules and does not really require any manipulating or twisting of them. This does not even require rules lawyering. Luckily the SR4 devs are watching this thread, so they will hopefully give us an answer. |
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Aug 10 2007, 04:28 PM
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#468
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,219 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lofwyr's stomach. Member No.: 1,320 |
If I were GMing this, I'd be a real lawyer-dick about it and state that fatigue damage isn't stun damage. It goes on the stun damage track, but it's fatigue damage and therefore things which reduce stun damage do not effect it.
Of course, once it goes on the damage track, it is stun damage and can be healed by things that heal stun damage. Can you tell I used to play magic the gathering? |
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Aug 10 2007, 04:52 PM
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#469
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 695 Joined: 2-January 07 From: He has here a minute ago... Member No.: 10,514 |
Common sense prevails here. It doesn't give your body needed oxygen, just removes the trauma of not having it. You still die, you're just more relaxed about it.
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Aug 10 2007, 06:03 PM
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#470
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Due to the way damage and drain works in SR4, the Trauma Damper is hardly exploitable in any way, shape, or form like it was in SR3. Not even by a mile. SR4 doesn't have set damage ratings. There's no such thing as "Light damage" that a Trauma Damper would eat up completely, allowing you to cast a rather large selection of spells for free with zero consequence all day long. Nor can you cast the biggest, baddest spell in your arsenal at the highest force you can and walk away with it simply because the Trauma Damper would instantly move that "Deadly drain" down to a "Serious wound." That is why the Trauma Damper was crazy in SR3. Not because it lowered damage by one box, but because the mechanics involved in taking damage were borked. All the Trauma Damper does now is remove Drain by one box. Cast a light Force spell? It might do no damage at all. It might do just one box of damage. But it might also do two or three boxes, too. You have no way to tell until the dice are actually thrown; averages are for casino owners and mathematicians and have no bearing on actual rolls in the real world. The only reason Trauma Dampers, Platelet Factories, and... that new blood one in Augmentation... basically just provide a free hit on your Damage and Drain Resistance Tests. A nice investment for a magician since they're pretty much the only character type in SR4 who takes voluntary damage, but so what? Magicians aren't allowed to have implants and equipment that's more useful to them than others? Guess we should get rid of Reflex Recorders, then, as they don't work on Magical Skills and are thus truly unbalanced for giving mundanes too much of an advantage! Oy. |
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Aug 10 2007, 06:12 PM
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#471
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Yeah, because magic works different now, it's not broken... even if it makes you immune to drowning and you can sprint forever. :S |
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Aug 10 2007, 06:15 PM
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#472
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Nice try and trying to take an observation someone else made and make it your own. You said "the oldest exploit of the Trauma Damper," which was its use with magic.
And the point remains; those are problems with the mechanics in question, not with an implant having the minimal impact of only giving you the equivalence of one hit on a Damage Resistance Test. |
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Aug 10 2007, 06:16 PM
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#473
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Indeed.
If you say so.
On the contrary, as illustrated by Paletet Factories and the BCCS. |
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Aug 10 2007, 06:21 PM
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#474
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
I have. You're trying to make Coldan's observation about an obscure mechanic your own, as if it had always been the number one, serious, dire problem with the Trauma Damper.
Point still remains: The problem is with the mechanic in question, not an implant that gives you a free hit. EDIT: Aww, you edited out your insult. /pat /pat |
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Aug 10 2007, 06:26 PM
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#475
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
No. But if you want to perceive it that way, go chasing wind-mills.
It has. It makes any kind of gradual, minimal stun damage irrelevant.
As the mechanic existed prior to the implant, it is the problem of how the implant works. There are similiar implants that don't share the problem. |
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