Increase Reflexes: How does it work?

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Increase Reflexes: How does it work?

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Ol' Scratch View Member Profile	Aug 3 2007, 08:45 PM Post #26
Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890	There's no question that the original poster's problem is with his players. He's just more intent on treating the perceived symptoms than the problem.

ZorbaTHut

Aug 3 2007, 09:10 PM

Post #27

Target

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Joined: 26-February 02
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QUOTE (DTFarstar)

I really think the OP's problem here is more a player problem than a magical one. It sounds to me like he has a 2 runner team, one super ninja who got together with the mage and decided that he was going to skip IP increasing tech in the interest of making himself really hard to hit with a huge dice pool to attack so the Mage can just Improved Invis him and Inc. Reflex him and they will own stuff. The problem there being it doesn't sound like the CHARACTERS are balanced. Send them on runs other than straight slaughters. Make them retrieve a package from a locked room that is contained via puzzle locks or something. Make them extract someone from a corp but apply a "They must not know what happened until X time." caveat to the contract so they can't just kill their way in. Then use the various magic defeating tech devices as security and make them think their way in.

The big thing to remember about SR is that none of this stuff is new. Corps have been implementing ways to defeat mages since magic came back over 50 years ago. EVERY and I mean EVERY trained sec guard in the world has had at least a few "magical defense" seminars on how to react in situations just like what you described. You know "If Bill is suddenly sliced in half for no apparent reason, lay down covering fire, thermal smoke, and hit the big red button labeled "Summon Magical Backup", then fight a defensive hindering action while on a tactical retreat till your support gets there." Hell, I'm sure a lot of corps purchase possession Guardian spirit contracts(karma for year and day service) to beef up their sec forces. I mean, when Bill the sec guard suddenly gets hardened armor 8, +4 to all physical stats, the ability to see in the astral(penetrates invis), and combat skill in whatever weapon he has at 4, he's ALOT more dangerous.

Again, just to stress, this is nothing that the corporation hasn't dealt with a thousand times before. You just need to think up some realistic response scenarios.

Chris

The problem is sadly a bit more complicated than that :D

I've tried to start a Shadowrun game with this group once or twice before with limited success. About two months ago someone mentioned "hey, I'm starting to get interested in Shadowrun, we should try that out again" and so I posted on the mailing list that we should try again and who was interested and let's meet up at this guy's house next weekend.

Natch, seven people show up. And then four of them make non-combat characters. Life has been interesting. I'm having trouble throwing anything at them that they have real issues with - they pretty much walk through whatever I give them so far, and so I'm frantically boosting difficulty and NPC strength in the hopes that I can challenge them. So far the only times I've even scratched them have been through their own blatant stupidity, doing things they knew were stupid but weren't worried about because combat is so easy. Obviously this is not behavior I want to encourage :)

I thought I had a good combat challenge last time, but then they figured out the invis/IP trick on their melee combat character (the third combat guy wasn't even playing that day!) and, well, so much for that one too. I didn't even get a single character to see the melee guy, except the mage, and I had to cheat on him by retroactively saying he was using astral perception (it didn't help, he wasn't able to counterspell enough to let anyone else see 'em.) I've gotten some good non-combat challenges going - combat challenges are being more of a problem. And I'm trying to come up with realistic ways to not throw them into the heart of corporate espionage on Day 1, since they're supposed to be new and people don't trust them yet. Which makes it tough to explain why they're going up against a pair of cyberzombies and four separate teams in helicopters. (No, I haven't done this yet. Yet.)

I'd forgotten that security teams are probably well-trained, though. Magic is rare, and I've been playing it that way, but I suppose it's not that rare when fighting in the shadows, and people are trained to deal with it in various ways. I just wanted to keep magic moderately rare, so they don't get used to every party having a mage in it because "well I guess everyone needs magical backup".

I suppose I'll just have to start coming up with line-of-sight tricks to keep that mage from buffing people quite as effectively.

And I have been planning on including a conjurer in the next adventure, so maybe that'll help matters. Time to go read up on how they work.

Apathy View Member Profile	Aug 3 2007, 09:14 PM Post #28
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,408 Joined: 31-January 04 From: Reston VA, USA Member No.: 6,046	There are a gazillion threads out there about corp security and how to defeat the silenced/imp invis/levetating mage. But just to rehash: On the tech side, ultra-sound, magnetic detectors (for cyberware), pherome detectors/chem sniffers (either the scent of the person, or his ammo/explosives/etc), pressure plates, thermosense organs (not thermographic), and radar all potentially catch invisible intruders. Magical defenses don't require having a mage on site Wards can dispel the spell. Even if they don't the creator of the ward knows every time his ward has been breached by an unauthorized party. Panic buttons can be set to fill a room with FAB, which will light up in the presence of magic. Spirits and/or watchers can be sent from the home office to materialize in front of the mage screaming "I'm here, I'm here!!!" There are plenty of cheap dual natured paranimals that can be kept on site to point out invisibles Mundane defenses can shut them down too. IR smoke and flash paks make everybody equally blind. Area effect weapons work great in closed rooms (stun grenades/freeze foam/gas grenades/electrified (stunning) floor panels etc.) Dogs and other mundane animals don't rely primarily on vision, and can therefore find your bad guys easily. *You give yourself away every time you have to physically open a door. Even better if they're revolving doors, and the corp hacker gets to lock the door when you're halfway through and fill the air with knockout gas of some sort. The spell combinations you list can be powerful in the right circumstance, but they're not a universal cheat code that always lets you win without breaking a sweat.

Dashifen

Aug 3 2007, 09:18 PM

Post #29

Technomancer

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QUOTE (Apathy)

You give yourself away every time you have to physically open a door. Even better if they're revolving doors, and the corp hacker gets to lock the door when you're halfway through and fill the air with knockout gas of some sort.

Brilliant!

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