Questions, What I've thought of so far... |
Questions, What I've thought of so far... |
Aug 9 2007, 02:16 PM
Post
#1
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 23 Joined: 1-August 07 Member No.: 12,429 |
I hope I don't repeat anything already answered on the forums. With Shadowrunrpg.com down, I thought maybe I could get answers here.
I don't see the answer to this question in the rules anywhere. Can you use a foci of a rating higher than your own Magic rating? Can an Adept reaspect himself, choosing different Powers? Can a mage unlearn spells and learn different ones instead? Does the Reflex Recorder, p. 340, stack with the Adept Power Improved Ability, p.187? Can you use a pair of gloves, brass knuckles, a ring, or possibly your own fists as a Weapon Focus for Unarmed Combat? Would the Adept Powers "Killing Hands" and "Critical Strike" be compatible with Brass Knuckles, Bone Lacing, a Cyber Hand, or the Bone Density Augmentation? Can you specialize in Dodging Ranged or Melee Attacks with Gymnastics since you can use it like the Dodge skill? When Enhanced Articulation, SR4 p. 338, refers to Physical Skills, does it mean the skills soley in the Physical Active Skill list OR does it also include other skills, like Dodge? When Synthacardium, SR4 p.339, refers to Athletic Tests, does it mean those skills in the Athletics skill group? If you are using a Weapon Focus, do you only get to use the bonus dice for attacking OR any time you are using the weapon (for instance, when parrying)? Am I correct in saying that Magic and Resonance don't have maximums, per se? For instance, I could have a Mage with 16 Magic if they had an Initiation Grade of 10. If you are a Mystic Adept, do you have to Allocate any of your points toward Spellcasting or Adept Powers? For Instance, if I had a character with Magic 4, could I spend all 4 points on Adept Powers? If I did so, could I still use skills, such as Spellcasting or Counterspelling, just using the skill as my dice pool since my Magic would be at 0? On p. 79 (SR4), it says that Mentor Spirit can be purchased by a Magician or Mystic Adept, but on p. 192, it says it can be purchased by ANY Awakened character. Which one is correct? |
|
|
Aug 9 2007, 02:23 PM
Post
#2
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
No.
Yes, but you may have to worry about hitting the cap.
Definitely yes on all but the fists. Not sure about the fists, but I probably wouldn't allow it.
Anything that enhances an unarmed strike would be compatible. Anything that deals damage itself would not.
I'd say no. If you allow it, you may as well toss Dodge out the window because there's no reason for it to exist.
Only Physical Active skills.
Yep.
Only with attacks.
The max is there, but you can increase it via initiation (or whatever the Resonance version of initiation is called).
You have to put at least one point towards each.
I'd allow it for any awakened character, since the benefits for a non-caster / summoner are pretty small. |
||||||||||||||||||||||
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Aug 9 2007, 02:28 PM
Post
#3
|
|||||||||||||||||
Target Group: Members Posts: 42 Joined: 25-July 07 Member No.: 12,367 |
I believe so. Though I also believe there is a limit on the maximum force of all bonded foci. Five times magic I believe.
This isn't mentioned anywhere in the raw. The closest you can get is having an adept lose a power point from cyber/bioware, initiating, and increasing his magic score again to pick a new power. But why go through all that trouble?
Yes, but keep in mind augmented maximums.
The brass knuckles and gloves, yes. The ring and your own hands, no. You have to bond a physical weapon to yourself. The ring could serve as another kind of focus though.
Only when attacking with the weapon focus.
Yes.
Yes and no. You could allocate all your magic to power points, but you wouldn't be able to pick up counterspelling or spellcasting as you cannot cast spells.
I'm inclined to go with the pg. 79 restriction. Mentor spirits are clearly intended as a boon to spellcasters. |
||||||||||||||||
|
|||||||||||||||||
Aug 9 2007, 02:40 PM
Post
#4
|
|
Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
Everyone else handled the "by the rules" answers -- but just as a quickie, here. In reference to mages unlearning spells and getting new ones, and Adepts dropping powers to pick up something new? From the sounds of things, you might be in kind of a young or new campaign, perhaps with players that aren't terribly experienced. In that case, if you have someone trying the game out for the first time and they realize that they're just plain not enjoying their character, or their powers aren't working nearly the way they thought they would, I'd go ahead and let them swap things out.
There's no point in making someone new to the magic rules suffer through the game, or create a whole new character, if there's something they can just tweak a little bit instead. You could work such a "relearning" process into the game, too, and maybe stretch it out for a few adventures, hook them up with a new contact, or make them to get a special item in order for it to work. Personally, I'd rather see someone's Adept jump through a few hoops to swap out Missile Parry (that they thought would be really cool) for Critical Strike (which IS really cool), than see them have to scrap the character, or just not like playing in the game. Your mileage may vary. |
|
|
Aug 9 2007, 02:59 PM
Post
#5
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 986 Joined: 29-June 07 Member No.: 12,093 |
I agree with that. Don't let them use it as kind of "I get any spell for free" ability, but letting them swap spells from what they think are cool in the book to what is practical is fine for when they're first starting.
As for "fists" being weapon focii, maybe if they're cyberhands specially crafted for it. But that'll be up to your GM, typically they're weapons. Dodge is under the Combat skills tab though, so no Synthcardium bonus for it. As for Gymnastics specializing into that... I'd say no. It won't really replace Dodge as you can use Dodge on the defense where Gymnastics can't be (only used on full defense) but it's not exactly meant to get out of the way of bullets or punches. It just has that side benefit if you devote your full attention to it. You can however specialize into Riverdancing if you felt like it. Huh! I thought the errata covered the Magician/Mystic Adept only having access to Mentor Spirit? |
|
|
Aug 9 2007, 03:07 PM
Post
#6
|
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,219 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lofwyr's stomach. Member No.: 1,320 |
Wait, weapon foci don't add dice when parrying with said weapon? I'm gonna need a page reference on that.
|
|
|
Aug 9 2007, 03:12 PM
Post
#7
|
|||
Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Implementing general karma refunds works, too... as long as people don't get crazy. |
||
|
|||
Aug 9 2007, 03:15 PM
Post
#8
|
|||
Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
SR4 main book, p. 191, specifically and repeatedly uses only the word "attacks" when referring to what weapon foci boost. Given their expense (both in terms of karma and nuyen), the difficulty that comes with trying to conceal and/or get around with a cool magic sword, yadda yadda yadda, I don't think it'd be unreasonable for a GM to house rule it so that they added dice to every test made with the weapon... but, as written, just attacks. |
||
|
|||
Aug 9 2007, 03:16 PM
Post
#9
|
|
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,706 Joined: 30-June 06 From: Fort Wayne, IN Member No.: 8,814 |
I've considered allowing Adepts to reallocate up to a point along with their initiation...but I would still want to monitor that strictly as I don't want a player thinking they can just swap out powers all the time...but if they really NEED to, then that is when I would think it could be appropriate.
|
|
|
Aug 9 2007, 03:27 PM
Post
#10
|
|||
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Why wouldn't the ring work? It's got the same relation to attacking with your hand as a pair of gloves, maybe even more if it's a big knobby ring with a firmly mounted diamond jutting out. |
||
|
|||
Aug 9 2007, 03:37 PM
Post
#11
|
|||||
Target Group: Members Posts: 42 Joined: 25-July 07 Member No.: 12,367 |
I suppose if it's more of a diamond sharp knife on a band that happens to be around your finger, then fine. But a ring, as most of us know it, is not a weapon. Sure, we've all been hit by someone with a ring, and it hurts, but it's not a weapon. |
||||
|
|||||
Aug 9 2007, 03:43 PM
Post
#12
|
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Then why is glove ok but ring not?
|
|
|
Aug 9 2007, 03:49 PM
Post
#13
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 42 Joined: 25-July 07 Member No.: 12,367 |
Gloves seem to play the role of a weapon and are a physical object. Perhaps it's my own personal bias that foci should be objects that in some way reflect thier intended purpose because magic tends to prefer appropriate symbolism and acts. Gloves are an appropriate physical object for a weapon focus, we often think of using gloves when we hit people. A ring is not. Besides, gloves can be altered to have all sorts of nasty impact on people it hits.
|
|
|
Aug 9 2007, 03:51 PM
Post
#14
|
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
Anything that could conceivably used as a hand weapon can be enchanted as a weapon focus. Some are more useful or easy to use than others. Generally speaking, a single ring on your finger could be enchanted as a weapon focus, but actually using it to damage an opponent can be difficult-a ring of sufficient size, weight, and construction would either be unwieldy or the equivelent of brass knuckles/hardliner gloves anyway.
So yes, you can enchant your big ol' college pinky ring, but just because it's enchanted doesn't mean you'll be leaving the university emblem embedded in a lot of foreheads. You can easily break a finger punching someone with a ring on, or even with brass knuckles, if you do it incorrectly. |
|
|
Aug 9 2007, 04:08 PM
Post
#15
|
|||
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
We'll just have to disagree then. Any setup that allows someone's cold weather garments to be enchanted as a weapon focus should, IMO, also apply to diamond and steel bands worn on the hand and capable of inflicting painful injuries. |
||
|
|||
Aug 9 2007, 04:09 PM
Post
#16
|
|||
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
True, but critical glitches are dangerous no matter what weapon you're wielding. :) |
||
|
|||
Aug 9 2007, 04:27 PM
Post
#17
|
|||||
Target Group: Members Posts: 42 Joined: 25-July 07 Member No.: 12,367 |
I think the difference here is in the image of gloves. I wasn't thinking of cold weather mittens. I was thinking of hardliner gloves. Again, the concept is that it's a weapon. I would say that thin gloves that aren't designed with fighting in mind fall into the ring category. Edit: Of course, agreeing to disagree will probably be the wise choice. :) |
||||
|
|||||
Aug 9 2007, 04:34 PM
Post
#18
|
|||||
Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
You can easily break your hand punching someone, if you do it incorrectly. |
||||
|
|||||
Aug 9 2007, 06:12 PM
Post
#19
|
|||||
Target Group: Members Posts: 23 Joined: 1-August 07 Member No.: 12,429 |
The only reason I asked this is because of the FAQ on shadowrunrpg.com which stated that you could defend yourself using Reaction + Gymnastics when it clarified what Gymnastic Dodge was. Of course I cannot quote it as the site is down. |
||||
|
|||||
Aug 9 2007, 06:56 PM
Post
#20
|
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
You can defend with Gymnastic Dodge, but Gymnastics has no dodge-oriented specialties listed. I bounce back and forth between wondering if they left them off on purpose, left them off on accident, or couldn't decide whether just to dump dodge altogether.
|
|
|
Aug 9 2007, 09:44 PM
Post
#21
|
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,219 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lofwyr's stomach. Member No.: 1,320 |
As I read the rules, Gymnastics can only be used as a dodge skill against ranged attacks. Melee skills can only be used as a defense against melee attacks. Dodge is the only skill that can always be used as a defense.
|
|
|
Aug 9 2007, 09:49 PM
Post
#22
|
|||||
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
You may want to reread the rules. :)
Although, you have to full dodge to perform a gymnastics dodge, so can't just automatically gymnastics dodge every melee attack that comes at you. |
||||
|
|||||
Aug 9 2007, 11:00 PM
Post
#23
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 95 Joined: 23-June 07 From: Akron, OH Member No.: 11,993 |
I would also agree that gloves must be built for fighting to be used as weapon foci, cyberhands and -weapons (while rare) are also a possibility, but I might consider allowing your actual fists as foci if they are magically tatooed (can't find a page reference, but seen it in the fluff. Can you help me here Frank?).
I also don't see any cap on Magic or Resonance (or edge for that matter- scary). Is there one by RAW, beyond that imposed by creation rules? As far as the Gymnastic Dodge goes, remember that using a skill is a complex action and I'd sayyou must have a lot of room to use this option, making Dodge an equally viable option. |
|
|
Aug 9 2007, 11:15 PM
Post
#24
|
|
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Edge is capped at 6 (7 for humans) + 1 with the Lucky Quality.
|
|
|
Aug 9 2007, 11:18 PM
Post
#25
|
|||
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
A magician cannot bind more foci than her Magic attribute (p.191, SR4), and the total Force of all bonded foci cannot exceed five times the character's Magic attribute (p.85, SR4). So a character with Magic 2 can have one Force 10 focus, or two foci with Force summing up to 10. Magic/Resonance is only capped by Initiation/Submergence and Essence - i.e. the natural maximum is 6 + 1 per grade of initiation (p.73, SR4), and Essence loss will lower Magic/Resonance and the maximum for that attribute (p.62, SR4). So a 2nd Grade Initiate with Essence 3.75 would have a maximum Magic attribute of 6 - 3 + 2 = 5. And no, you cannot enchant your hands as weapon foci, even if you tattoo them. Referring to the FAQ:
Your hands count as living material too. So no enchanting. |
||
|
|||
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 29th April 2024 - 02:51 AM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.