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BattleJester
post Aug 9 2007, 02:16 PM
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I hope I don't repeat anything already answered on the forums. With Shadowrunrpg.com down, I thought maybe I could get answers here.

I don't see the answer to this question in the rules anywhere. Can you use a foci of a rating higher than your own Magic rating?

Can an Adept reaspect himself, choosing different Powers? Can a mage unlearn spells and learn different ones instead?

Does the Reflex Recorder, p. 340, stack with the Adept Power Improved Ability, p.187?

Can you use a pair of gloves, brass knuckles, a ring, or possibly your own fists as a Weapon Focus for Unarmed Combat?

Would the Adept Powers "Killing Hands" and "Critical Strike" be compatible with Brass Knuckles, Bone Lacing, a Cyber Hand, or the Bone Density Augmentation?

Can you specialize in Dodging Ranged or Melee Attacks with Gymnastics since you can use it like the Dodge skill?

When Enhanced Articulation, SR4 p. 338, refers to Physical Skills, does it mean the skills soley in the Physical Active Skill list OR does it also include other skills, like Dodge?

When Synthacardium, SR4 p.339, refers to Athletic Tests, does it mean those skills in the Athletics skill group?

If you are using a Weapon Focus, do you only get to use the bonus dice for attacking OR any time you are using the weapon (for instance, when parrying)?

Am I correct in saying that Magic and Resonance don't have maximums, per se? For instance, I could have a Mage with 16 Magic if they had an Initiation Grade of 10.

If you are a Mystic Adept, do you have to Allocate any of your points toward Spellcasting or Adept Powers? For Instance, if I had a character with Magic 4, could I spend all 4 points on Adept Powers? If I did so, could I still use skills, such as Spellcasting or Counterspelling, just using the skill as my dice pool since my Magic would be at 0?

On p. 79 (SR4), it says that Mentor Spirit can be purchased by a Magician or Mystic Adept, but on p. 192, it says it can be purchased by ANY Awakened character. Which one is correct?
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James McMurray
post Aug 9 2007, 02:23 PM
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QUOTE
Can an Adept reaspect himself, choosing different Powers? Can a mage unlearn spells and learn different ones instead?


No.

QUOTE
Does the Reflex Recorder, p. 340, stack with the Adept Power Improved Ability, p.187?


Yes, but you may have to worry about hitting the cap.

QUOTE
Can you use a pair of gloves, brass knuckles, a ring, or possibly your own fists as a Weapon Focus for Unarmed Combat?


Definitely yes on all but the fists. Not sure about the fists, but I probably wouldn't allow it.

QUOTE
Would the Adept Powers "Killing Hands" and "Critical Strike" be compatible with Brass Knuckles, Bone Lacing, a Cyber Hand, or the Bone Density Augmentation?


Anything that enhances an unarmed strike would be compatible. Anything that deals damage itself would not.

QUOTE
Can you specialize in Dodging Ranged or Melee Attacks with Gymnastics since you can use it like the Dodge skill?


I'd say no. If you allow it, you may as well toss Dodge out the window because there's no reason for it to exist.

QUOTE
When Enhanced Articulation, SR4 p. 338, refers to Physical Skills, does it mean the skills soley in the Physical Active Skill list OR does it also include other skills, like Dodge?


Only Physical Active skills.

QUOTE
When Synthacardium, SR4 p.339, refers to Athletic Tests, does it mean those skills in the Athletics skill group?


Yep.

QUOTE
If you are using a Weapon Focus, do you only get to use the bonus dice for attacking OR any time you are using the weapon (for instance, when parrying)?


Only with attacks.

QUOTE
Am I correct in saying that Magic and Resonance don't have maximums, per se? For instance, I could have a Mage with 16 Magic if they had an Initiation Grade of 10.


The max is there, but you can increase it via initiation (or whatever the Resonance version of initiation is called).

QUOTE
If you are a Mystic Adept, do you have to Allocate any of your points toward Spellcasting or Adept Powers? For Instance, if I had a character with Magic 4, could I spend all 4 points on Adept Powers? If I did so, could I still use skills, such as Spellcasting or Counterspelling, just using the skill as my dice pool since my Magic would be at 0?


You have to put at least one point towards each.

QUOTE
On p. 79 (SR4), it says that Mentor Spirit can be purchased by a Magician or Mystic Adept, but on p. 192, it says it can be purchased by ANY Awakened character. Which one is correct?


I'd allow it for any awakened character, since the benefits for a non-caster / summoner are pretty small.
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farrenj
post Aug 9 2007, 02:28 PM
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QUOTE (BattleJester)
I don't see the answer to this question in the rules anywhere. Can you use a foci of a rating higher than your own Magic rating?


I believe so. Though I also believe there is a limit on the maximum force of all bonded foci. Five times magic I believe.

QUOTE
Can an Adept reaspect himself, choosing different Powers? Can a mage unlearn spells and learn different ones instead?


This isn't mentioned anywhere in the raw. The closest you can get is having an adept lose a power point from cyber/bioware, initiating, and increasing his magic score again to pick a new power. But why go through all that trouble?

QUOTE
Does the Reflex Recorder, p. 340, stack with the Adept Power Improved Ability, p.187?


Yes, but keep in mind augmented maximums.

QUOTE
Can you use a pair of gloves, brass knuckles, a ring, or possibly your own fists as a Weapon Focus for Unarmed Combat?


The brass knuckles and gloves, yes. The ring and your own hands, no. You have to bond a physical weapon to yourself. The ring could serve as another kind of focus though.

QUOTE
If you are using a Weapon Focus, do you only get to use the bonus dice for attacking OR any time you are using the weapon (for instance, when parrying)?


Only when attacking with the weapon focus.

QUOTE
Am I correct in saying that Magic and Resonance don't have maximums, per se? For instance, I could have a Mage with 16 Magic if they had an Initiation Grade of 10.


Yes.

QUOTE
If you are a Mystic Adept, do you have to Allocate any of your points toward Spellcasting or Adept Powers? For Instance, if I had a character with Magic 4, could I spend all 4 points on Adept Powers? If I did so, could I still use skills, such as Spellcasting or Counterspelling, just using the skill as my dice pool since my Magic would be at 0?


Yes and no. You could allocate all your magic to power points, but you wouldn't be able to pick up counterspelling or spellcasting as you cannot cast spells.

QUOTE
On p. 79 (SR4), it says that Mentor Spirit can be purchased by a Magician or Mystic Adept, but on p. 192, it says it can be purchased by ANY Awakened character. Which one is correct?


I'm inclined to go with the pg. 79 restriction. Mentor spirits are clearly intended as a boon to spellcasters.
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Critias
post Aug 9 2007, 02:40 PM
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Everyone else handled the "by the rules" answers -- but just as a quickie, here. In reference to mages unlearning spells and getting new ones, and Adepts dropping powers to pick up something new? From the sounds of things, you might be in kind of a young or new campaign, perhaps with players that aren't terribly experienced. In that case, if you have someone trying the game out for the first time and they realize that they're just plain not enjoying their character, or their powers aren't working nearly the way they thought they would, I'd go ahead and let them swap things out.

There's no point in making someone new to the magic rules suffer through the game, or create a whole new character, if there's something they can just tweak a little bit instead. You could work such a "relearning" process into the game, too, and maybe stretch it out for a few adventures, hook them up with a new contact, or make them to get a special item in order for it to work.

Personally, I'd rather see someone's Adept jump through a few hoops to swap out Missile Parry (that they thought would be really cool) for Critical Strike (which IS really cool), than see them have to scrap the character, or just not like playing in the game. Your mileage may vary.
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Marwynn
post Aug 9 2007, 02:59 PM
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I agree with that. Don't let them use it as kind of "I get any spell for free" ability, but letting them swap spells from what they think are cool in the book to what is practical is fine for when they're first starting.

As for "fists" being weapon focii, maybe if they're cyberhands specially crafted for it. But that'll be up to your GM, typically they're weapons.

Dodge is under the Combat skills tab though, so no Synthcardium bonus for it. As for Gymnastics specializing into that... I'd say no. It won't really replace Dodge as you can use Dodge on the defense where Gymnastics can't be (only used on full defense) but it's not exactly meant to get out of the way of bullets or punches. It just has that side benefit if you devote your full attention to it.

You can however specialize into Riverdancing if you felt like it. Huh!

I thought the errata covered the Magician/Mystic Adept only having access to Mentor Spirit?
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PlatonicPimp
post Aug 9 2007, 03:07 PM
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Wait, weapon foci don't add dice when parrying with said weapon? I'm gonna need a page reference on that.
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Rotbart van Dain...
post Aug 9 2007, 03:12 PM
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QUOTE (Critias)
In reference to mages unlearning spells and getting new ones, and Adepts dropping powers to pick up something new? From the sounds of things, you might be in kind of a young or new campaign, perhaps with players that aren't terribly experienced. In that case, if you have someone trying the game out for the first time and they realize that they're just plain not enjoying their character, or their powers aren't working nearly the way they thought they would, I'd go ahead and let them swap things out.

Implementing general karma refunds works, too... as long as people don't get crazy.
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Critias
post Aug 9 2007, 03:15 PM
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QUOTE (PlatonicPimp)
Wait, weapon foci don't add dice when parrying with said weapon? I'm gonna need a page reference on that.

SR4 main book, p. 191, specifically and repeatedly uses only the word "attacks" when referring to what weapon foci boost. Given their expense (both in terms of karma and nuyen), the difficulty that comes with trying to conceal and/or get around with a cool magic sword, yadda yadda yadda, I don't think it'd be unreasonable for a GM to house rule it so that they added dice to every test made with the weapon... but, as written, just attacks.
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deek
post Aug 9 2007, 03:16 PM
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I've considered allowing Adepts to reallocate up to a point along with their initiation...but I would still want to monitor that strictly as I don't want a player thinking they can just swap out powers all the time...but if they really NEED to, then that is when I would think it could be appropriate.
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James McMurray
post Aug 9 2007, 03:27 PM
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QUOTE (farrenj)
The brass knuckles and gloves, yes. The ring and your own hands, no. You have to bond a physical weapon to yourself. The ring could serve as another kind of focus though.

Why wouldn't the ring work? It's got the same relation to attacking with your hand as a pair of gloves, maybe even more if it's a big knobby ring with a firmly mounted diamond jutting out.
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farrenj
post Aug 9 2007, 03:37 PM
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QUOTE (James McMurray)
QUOTE (farrenj @ Aug 9 2007, 09:28 AM)
The brass knuckles and gloves, yes. The ring and your own hands, no. You have to bond a physical weapon to yourself. The ring could serve as another kind of focus though.

Why wouldn't the ring work? It's got the same relation to attacking with your hand as a pair of gloves, maybe even more if it's a big knobby ring with a firmly mounted diamond jutting out.

I suppose if it's more of a diamond sharp knife on a band that happens to be around your finger, then fine. But a ring, as most of us know it, is not a weapon. Sure, we've all been hit by someone with a ring, and it hurts, but it's not a weapon.
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James McMurray
post Aug 9 2007, 03:43 PM
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Then why is glove ok but ring not?
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farrenj
post Aug 9 2007, 03:49 PM
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Gloves seem to play the role of a weapon and are a physical object. Perhaps it's my own personal bias that foci should be objects that in some way reflect thier intended purpose because magic tends to prefer appropriate symbolism and acts. Gloves are an appropriate physical object for a weapon focus, we often think of using gloves when we hit people. A ring is not. Besides, gloves can be altered to have all sorts of nasty impact on people it hits.
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Ancient History
post Aug 9 2007, 03:51 PM
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Anything that could conceivably used as a hand weapon can be enchanted as a weapon focus. Some are more useful or easy to use than others. Generally speaking, a single ring on your finger could be enchanted as a weapon focus, but actually using it to damage an opponent can be difficult-a ring of sufficient size, weight, and construction would either be unwieldy or the equivelent of brass knuckles/hardliner gloves anyway.

So yes, you can enchant your big ol' college pinky ring, but just because it's enchanted doesn't mean you'll be leaving the university emblem embedded in a lot of foreheads. You can easily break a finger punching someone with a ring on, or even with brass knuckles, if you do it incorrectly.
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James McMurray
post Aug 9 2007, 04:08 PM
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QUOTE (farrenj)
Gloves seem to play the role of a weapon and are a physical object. Perhaps it's my own personal bias that foci should be objects that in some way reflect thier intended purpose because magic tends to prefer appropriate symbolism and acts. Gloves are an appropriate physical object for a weapon focus, we often think of using gloves when we hit people. A ring is not. Besides, gloves can be altered to have all sorts of nasty impact on people it hits.

We'll just have to disagree then. Any setup that allows someone's cold weather garments to be enchanted as a weapon focus should, IMO, also apply to diamond and steel bands worn on the hand and capable of inflicting painful injuries.
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James McMurray
post Aug 9 2007, 04:09 PM
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QUOTE (Ancient History)
You can easily break a finger punching someone with a ring on, or even with brass knuckles, if you do it incorrectly.

True, but critical glitches are dangerous no matter what weapon you're wielding. :)
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farrenj
post Aug 9 2007, 04:27 PM
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QUOTE (James McMurray @ Aug 9 2007, 11:08 AM)
QUOTE (farrenj @ Aug 9 2007, 10:49 AM)
Gloves seem to play the role of a weapon and are a physical object. Perhaps it's my own personal bias that foci should be objects that in some way reflect thier intended purpose because magic tends to prefer appropriate symbolism and acts. Gloves are an appropriate physical object for a weapon focus, we often think of using gloves when we hit people. A ring is not. Besides, gloves can be altered to have all sorts of nasty impact on people it hits.

We'll just have to disagree then. Any setup that allows someone's cold weather garments to be enchanted as a weapon focus should, IMO, also apply to diamond and steel bands worn on the hand and capable of inflicting painful injuries.

I think the difference here is in the image of gloves. I wasn't thinking of cold weather mittens. I was thinking of hardliner gloves. Again, the concept is that it's a weapon. I would say that thin gloves that aren't designed with fighting in mind fall into the ring category.

Edit: Of course, agreeing to disagree will probably be the wise choice. :)
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Moon-Hawk
post Aug 9 2007, 04:34 PM
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QUOTE (James McMurray)
QUOTE (Ancient History @ Aug 9 2007, 10:51 AM)
You can easily break a finger punching someone with a ring on, or even with brass knuckles, if you do it incorrectly.

True, but critical glitches are dangerous no matter what weapon you're wielding. :)

You can easily break your hand punching someone, if you do it incorrectly.
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BattleJester
post Aug 9 2007, 06:12 PM
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QUOTE
QUOTE

Can you specialize in Dodging Ranged or Melee Attacks with Gymnastics since you can use it like the Dodge skill?


I'd say no. If you allow it, you may as well toss Dodge out the window because there's no reason for it to exist.


The only reason I asked this is because of the FAQ on shadowrunrpg.com which stated that you could defend yourself using Reaction + Gymnastics when it clarified what Gymnastic Dodge was. Of course I cannot quote it as the site is down.
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James McMurray
post Aug 9 2007, 06:56 PM
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You can defend with Gymnastic Dodge, but Gymnastics has no dodge-oriented specialties listed. I bounce back and forth between wondering if they left them off on purpose, left them off on accident, or couldn't decide whether just to dump dodge altogether.
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PlatonicPimp
post Aug 9 2007, 09:44 PM
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As I read the rules, Gymnastics can only be used as a dodge skill against ranged attacks. Melee skills can only be used as a defense against melee attacks. Dodge is the only skill that can always be used as a defense.
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James McMurray
post Aug 9 2007, 09:49 PM
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QUOTE (PlatonicPimp)
As I read the rules, Gymnastics can only be used as a dodge skill against ranged attacks. Melee skills can only be used as a defense against melee attacks. Dodge is the only skill that can always be used as a defense.

You may want to reread the rules. :)

QUOTE
Gymnastics Dodge: Characters skilled in Gymnastics can
spend their action fl ipping, rolling, cartwheeling, etc. out of
danger, and may add Gymnastics skill to their dice pool against
either ranged or melee attacks.


Although, you have to full dodge to perform a gymnastics dodge, so can't just automatically gymnastics dodge every melee attack that comes at you.
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streetangelj
post Aug 9 2007, 11:00 PM
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I would also agree that gloves must be built for fighting to be used as weapon foci, cyberhands and -weapons (while rare) are also a possibility, but I might consider allowing your actual fists as foci if they are magically tatooed (can't find a page reference, but seen it in the fluff. Can you help me here Frank?).

I also don't see any cap on Magic or Resonance (or edge for that matter- scary). Is there one by RAW, beyond that imposed by creation rules?

As far as the Gymnastic Dodge goes, remember that using a skill is a complex action and I'd sayyou must have a lot of room to use this option, making Dodge an equally viable option.
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Fortune
post Aug 9 2007, 11:15 PM
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Edge is capped at 6 (7 for humans) + 1 with the Lucky Quality.
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Ancient History
post Aug 9 2007, 11:18 PM
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A magician cannot bind more foci than her Magic attribute (p.191, SR4), and the total Force of all bonded foci cannot exceed five times the character's Magic attribute (p.85, SR4).

So a character with Magic 2 can have one Force 10 focus, or two foci with Force summing up to 10.

Magic/Resonance is only capped by Initiation/Submergence and Essence - i.e. the natural maximum is 6 + 1 per grade of initiation (p.73, SR4), and Essence loss will lower Magic/Resonance and the maximum for that attribute (p.62, SR4).

So a 2nd Grade Initiate with Essence 3.75 would have a maximum Magic attribute of 6 - 3 + 2 = 5.

And no, you cannot enchant your hands as weapon foci, even if you tattoo them. Referring to the FAQ:
QUOTE
Can you enchant cyberware and bioware?

You can enchant cyberware, but this must be done before it is implanted, and should be carefully weighed before the gamemaster approves it. Such a focus would be considered Mundane Telesma (see pp. 83-84, Street Magic).

Bioware may not be enchanted, as it is a living material.

Your hands count as living material too. So no enchanting.
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