 Mnemonic Enhancer |
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 Nov 16 2003, 10:38 PM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 875 Joined: 16-November 03 Member No.: 5,827  |
What are the new rules regarding the Karma-Costs for learning new skills with a Mnemonic Enhancer ("Mnemoverstärker" in German) in the Men&Machine revisited? Will they be brought online on the Homepage/Errata?
SYL |
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Nov 16 2003, 10:44 PM
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#2
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
I've never heard of anything involving new rules for it. Can anyone state whether this is accurate or just a rumor?
~J |
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Nov 16 2003, 10:58 PM
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#3
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
I haven't heard anything either, though I've been out of the loop for a while. I personally don't see any problem with it. Sure, it's a nice implant even without the Karma reducing effects, but in most games I've been in you don't receive ungodly amounts of Karma anyway... so it's rather nice to have a convenient way to improve/obtain a few skills even when you only get about 3-5 Karma per run.
In past discussions with people who had problems with it, I suggested that instead of removing those rules completely, change them so that they only help improve the time it takes to learn or improve a skill (such as adding extra dice for the learning test, or lowering the target number by its rating). Sure, few people I've played with have ever used the learning test rules (that's a bold faced lie -- no one has ever used them), but it still beats killing off an effect completely. |
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Nov 16 2003, 10:59 PM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 875 Joined: 16-November 03 Member No.: 5,827 |
Well, it is said that during Ratcon 2003, a German RPG-Con, Rob said that the Karma-rules regarding the ME would be changed in the M&M revisited. That´s the reason of my question.
SYL |
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Nov 16 2003, 11:18 PM
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#5
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Mr. Quote-function Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,312 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Somewhere in Germany Member No.: 1,376 |
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Nov 23 2003, 09:55 AM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 875 Joined: 16-November 03 Member No.: 5,827 |
http://www.shadowrunrpg.com/resources/errata_mm.shtml
p. 73 Mnemonic Enhancer [4] Under Game Effects, change the third paragraph to read: Because memory retention is key to learning, the Karma cost for learning or improving skills and specializations is reduced by 1 (to a minimum of 1) for any character with a mnemonic enhancer. YEAH! :rotfl: |
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Nov 23 2003, 05:30 PM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 488 Joined: 4-August 03 From: Amidst the ruins of Silicon Valley. Member No.: 5,242 |
That's a good balance. Nowhere near as outrageous as the original mechanic, but still a pleasant addition to stack on top of the language bonus and plus to Knowledge skills.
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Nov 23 2003, 05:39 PM
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#8
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
so basicly the effect is no longer based on rating when it comes to any other skills then knowledge and languages...
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Nov 23 2003, 06:01 PM
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#9
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,138 Joined: 10-June 03 From: Tennessee Member No.: 4,706 |
As far as errata goes, I'm not unhappy with any of the new M&M errata. It gives some and takes some and generally makes things work better.
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Nov 23 2003, 06:04 PM
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#10
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032 |
Hmm. Interesting. The bit about bioware now reducing magic rating in a similar manner to cyber is definately a big difference. I'd prefer it if they made a descision one way or the other on the trauma dampener though.
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Nov 23 2003, 06:06 PM
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#11
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,138 Joined: 10-June 03 From: Tennessee Member No.: 4,706 |
How so? It becomes semi-moot now anyway since the suggestion about cultured bioware not being available at char gen is officially canon now (as opposed to a FAQ suggestion). |
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Nov 23 2003, 06:19 PM
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#12
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
It's not canon now, anymore than Aptitude (Pistols) is. It's just "recommended."
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Nov 23 2003, 06:43 PM
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#13
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,222 Joined: 11-October 02 From: Netherlands and Belgium Member No.: 3,437 |
This'll definitely change a few things.... Our team leader just got alot worse in 2/3rds of his skills (CJ ExpDriver ruling) while my PC is now completely unaffected by his 1 point of Bioware.
Guess we'll be re-working a certain PC in the upcoming week or so. :P Sphynx |
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Nov 23 2003, 06:44 PM
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#14
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
And bioware is finally on equal footing with cyberware for magical characters. |
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Nov 23 2003, 07:26 PM
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#15
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 488 Joined: 4-August 03 From: Amidst the ruins of Silicon Valley. Member No.: 5,242 |
Um... did you read the example they provided? The Bio Index is divided by two to determine the amount of Magic you lose, but you still lose Magic. Here's the passage in question:
Your PC is not completely unaffected by his one point of Bioware. |
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Nov 23 2003, 07:28 PM
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#16
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
He is if he only has 0.5 Essence worth of cyberware.
Now mages can get a Cybereye (EyeLight, Image Link, Low-Light, Vision Mag 3), Datajack, Internal Transducer, Knowsoft Link, Trauma Damper, and Enhanced Articulator(or)Menmonic Enhancer 3 for the low, low price of only -1 Magic. Or just about any other combo you like. Which can be geased away completely. Score. I think I'm going to stick with our old house rule. Cyberware and Bioware affect Magic independantly, and Bio Index isn't divided in half. Bioware has always been geasable in our games. |
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Nov 23 2003, 07:39 PM
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#17
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,047 Joined: 12-November 03 From: Perilously close to the Sioux Nation. Member No.: 5,818 |
That sounds good :vegm:
No, I like the "no regain" rule. It made bioware, well, different. |
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Nov 23 2003, 09:24 PM
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#18
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,222 Joined: 11-October 02 From: Netherlands and Belgium Member No.: 3,437 |
Not if the only Cyber I have is a Smartlink-2(Alpha) and CyberEyes w/ ImageLink+ (Alpha) for 0.48 essence total. :P Sphynx |
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Nov 23 2003, 11:28 PM
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#19
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,359 Joined: 25-June 02 From: Vancouver, B.C., Canada (go Canucks!) Member No.: 2,904 |
Gah! They NERF™ed my mnemonic enhancer! BAD Fanpro! BAD Wizkids! BAD everyone involved! I am most displeased!
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Nov 24 2003, 03:02 AM
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#20
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,632 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Portland Oregon, USA Member No.: 1,304 |
But to make up for it, your phys-ad can get enhanced articulation and a supra-thyroid for the loss of one point of magic.
+2 reaction, +1 to all physical stats and +1 to all physical skills. Holy crap. |
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Nov 24 2003, 05:40 AM
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#21
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,685 Joined: 17-August 02 Member No.: 3,123 |
Personally, I'm ignoring the half bio-index thing until I hear more about how it affects peoples games. My inner number-cruncher drools thinking about what else I can cram into a mage without significant effect. Now I can have the trauma damper, level 1 mnemonic enhancer, and 1.2 BI of whatever else I want for one measly geasable magic point?
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Nov 24 2003, 06:05 AM
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#22
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
Well, since we don't allow gaesa for voluntary magic loss like implants, I think it's just fine... a little easier for both players and NPC's, it affects everyone equally.
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Nov 24 2003, 06:19 AM
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#23
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,116 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,449 |
With the new rules, you could make one heck of a gun adept. Take Pistols/Specific Pistol: 5/7, Improved Ability/Pistols: 5, then get cybereyes (with low-light, flare compensation, and optical magnification: 3), a smartlink II, enhanced articulation, and a reflex recorder (of your specific pistol specialization). You start out slinging 14 dice, and can add up to 7 more from Combat Pool. Grade A bang-bang! 8)
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Nov 24 2003, 06:55 AM
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#24
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,685 Joined: 17-August 02 Member No.: 3,123 |
Yeah, the very next thing I thought of was an 8-BI bioware sammie as an adept with 4 geasa. It could get wonderfully gruesome.
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Nov 24 2003, 07:26 AM
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#25
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 588 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 227 |
Yah know, I still like my original playtest proposal for the ME karma reduction best. Simply put, the ME would "match spending" when you used karma to learn a skill, up to a number of "virtual akrma" equal to its rating. Once hit that cap, it didn't help you any further with that skill.
To much record keeping, I guess- you need to record how much karma the ME has "kicked in" towards every skill you have. But it does seem a heck of a lot more balanced, if also a hell of a lot more complicated to write a rule for. |
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