Stock?, For the entrepreneurial runner Options

[virgileso]

I noticed something in some of the 4th edition character sheet conversion, where there were several lines dedicated to what stocks a player had. Is this some old 3rd edition rule, or have I missed some aspect of character design?

[neko128]

I don't remember seeing it in the rules for 4E, but it's commented on any number of times in the fluff (again, mostly not in 4E, but that's largely because certain books haven't been re-published yet). There were several Shadowland posters who constantly posited that runners should own small amounts of stock (even single shares) in just about every Corp out there, so that they could get shareholder information and annual reports and similar stuff.

Personally, I never saw the point; if it's available publically or to shareholders, why couldn't your average shadowrunner just hack it out of some public library or some jackass's home terminal (nowadays, Commlink)?

[Cheops]

yeah, I never understood that either. Unless maybe in SR the corporate filings go to the Corporate Court and MAYBE it doesn't make that info publicly available. The extraterritorialty thing poses all sorts of questions for corporate governance.

But in RL, I could log off Dumpshock, wander over to the TSX and ask them to mail me and give me a PDF of every single filing that they have on record for free. You don't have to own stocks for it.

The only other reason I could see for common shares, apart from capital gains and dividends, would be voting rights and attending annual shareholder meetings. However, the amount of stocks that an AVERAGE runner would have would make no difference in voting. All it would do if a runner showed up is allow security to know which runners are sniffing around their corp. Add to the fact that not all shareholder meetings are going to be in the same town or country makes it difficult for highly illegal, SINless persons to get to them. (ie. all the Japanacorps would only hold their meetings in Japan).

[Solomon Greene]

If you're really interested, track down Corporate Shadowfiles. It has a wonderful write-up on stocks and the benefits of owning, done in incredible detail.

[Sma]

I vaguely remember something about stock being used as money (corp scrip) instead of the almighty nuyen, being mentioned. Helps with locking your employees into your retail chain.

[virgileso]

What's the difference between Corporate Shadowfiles and Corporate Download?

[Ophis]

One of them comes with a lecture in basic economics. Download is more data about ho the world works. Shadowfiles is mostly run related. They both rock but they rock differently.

[Ol' Scratch]

They're two separate books for two different editions of the game (well, Corporate Shadowfiles may have been around during the switch between 2nd and 3rd, I honestly don't remember). They both have their distinctive flavors and focus on information, though I prefer Corporate Download.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

[WeaverMount]

about the source books which one give full stats (not A rating) for corps?

[streetangelj]

That would be Corp Shadowfiles. (The first one.) Also the cooler one in my opinion.

[Kyoto Kid]

[WeaverMount]

thanx I'll look for it

[Slump]

I think the biggest reason for shadowrunners to own stock is because you have inside information -- you know that smallish corp X is going to have a serious research setback or lose alot of materials, and that smallish corp Y is going to have a pretty big advance or get an unpredictably large chunk of the marketplace. So you buy corp X on margin, and buy stock in corp Y, and make extra money going both directions.

[Cheops]

[Penta]

Must echo Cheops. IRL, the SEC is -very- vigilant about insider trading. If a trade looks even the tiniest bit suspicious, they knock on the door with an 'informal' inquiry.

The corps -all- have a vested interest in keeping the markets clean and fair, so this is the one time I don't see extraterritoriality reducing regulation.

[Adarael]

Especially when now you can be fined for several million, and in the future your family can be fined for several million after you die under mysterious circumstances.

[hyzmarca]

I never got the point of the whole insider trading thing. I mean, what's the point of having insider information if you can't use it?

Remember, the Corporate Court is run by corporate insiders who don't want to lose huge amounts of money. Insider trading is probably legal.

[Slump]

Got those two reversed somehow, must have been a brain fart. Anyway, shadow brokerage firms are where it's at when it comes to discrete buying and selling of stocks based on inside information. If one person move just those two stocks, then yes, it will look suspicious, but when a giant mutual funds moves those two stocks, and hundreds of others, it doesn't look nearly as suspicious. Heck, I bet most shadow brokerage firms are just a small group inside legitimate brokerage firms that do their activities without the firm knowing about it. Plus, the money trail can probably point to whoever you want it to point to, so you can probably get the SEC equivalent to knock on someone you don't like's doors, possibly engaging in yet another job while you get on with your original job. Talk about making your money work for you!

[Zen Shooter01]

This gets into the Day Job issue. Sure, runners may have inside information (if we burn down their factory on Wednesday night, their stock will be down Thursday morning), and they may want to use it. Besides that, runners are likely to have a lot of liquid cash, and regardless of insider info might want to see it earning 5%.

But...do you as the GM want to go to the trouble?

Don't forget that just because you burned down the factory doesn't mean the stock will suffer. The corporation will have redundancy built in, insurance policies, and a PR department, all to minimize the damage from something like that.

Anyway, if you want to do it, I'd suggest inventing a Knowledge Skill, Investing, and let the PC roll it once a month. Every hit increases the value of their portfolio by 1%. Glitches cost 2%, critical glitches 5%. Modify the dice pool or threshold for inside information or market events - the assassination of Big D would have shocked the market, for example, so -3 dice pool that month.

That's just off the top of my head.

[Zen Shooter01]

Come to think of it, the Investing test should be threshold 2.

[Buster]

[Big D]

More likely, the laws on the books are very strict, but only enforced selectively.

Also, note that you're not gonna move Azzie stock with your run. You *might* move small no-name company that happens to be 51%-owned by a subsidiary of a holding company wholly owned by a brokerage whose stock is held by a combination of AZT and some Azzie directors and possibly a VP who wrangled a personal stake in it years ago to line their pockets.

So, finding a stock that will be impacted by your run, that won't raise immediate flags (stock is poorly traded except for your "blip"), isn't off-the-market, and will actually move in the way that you want it to move (gotta love those PR people), isn't as easy as it might sound.

Heck, you could steal Red's new secret formula on a run for Blue, and their stock price might still drop on the market the next day if Red had a run of their own going at the same time to contaminate a bottler with aspartame. Or, of course, your run could go south, or you could get paid for your run but Blue discovers that the new formula is really for New Coke.

Short version: you can fix a horse race, but the mob may whack you for it. Fixing a company's stock, while certainly possible, is a lot harder.

[Cheops]

Have to echo Big D on that one. The Megacorps are pretty much untouchable by regular runners. Small, local corps on the other hand or subsidiaries are possible.

Insider trading is illegal in any country with a modern economy. Governments do try to stop it as much as possible but insider trading is VERY ambiguous. That's why it is so hard to legislate for it. The CFA Standards defines it as Material Nonpublic Information. The problem is the definition of Material can be nebulous. And since it is a criminal charge in most jurisdictions it means you have to prove "beyond a shadow of a doubt" instead of on balance of probabilities. At the very least the offender will lose their certifications.

Insider trading does go on and probably is fairly rampant in SR. But it still has to be behind closed doors. Corporations in SR are still dependent on modern methods of financing AFAIK which means stocks and bonds. Insider trading erodes investor confidence in the secondary markets (ie. NYSE) and would result in low liquidity which leads to lower prices. This in turn affects the sell-side of the equation. If stocks command less money in the secondary markets then the investment banks that are underwriting the stock issue have to sell the subscription for less money which means that the issuing corporation receives less money on the issue. This means less money for investment in new plant, equipment, and other business ventures, which means investment goes down, leading to a drop in the GNP which lowers the standard of living. Less disposable money means less savings, which means less money in the financial markets. It's a nasty cycle.

Based on the poverty inherent in SR I'd say that there is definitely insider trading and it seems that the standard of living has gone down (evidenced by the increase in cost for Low Lifestyle). I'd wager that that was largely because of the Crash however, and not insider traders.

[hyzmarca]