 Mage Sight Goggles, Named that way for a reason? |
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 Aug 23 2007, 02:32 AM
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#1
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 37 Joined: 9-February 07 Member No.: 10,958  |
According to LOS rules, the character must be able to see the target without digital enhancement, however they can use optical enhancement. I suspect this rule was put in to allow mages with cybereyes to still be able to cast spells,
Mage sight goggles allow a character to look around a corner 30m away, and do so using fibre optics. As a result, it is an analog signal. Does this mean a mage can launch mana bolts, acid streams, etc through mage sight goggles? If so, how does this manifest? Does the power behind the spell materialize on the target directly? Does it fly from the mage directly, ignoring any objects between the mage and target? Or is the spell somehow channeled through the goggles themselves? I can't imagine a stream of acid flying from the mage's hands, through a fiber optic line, and then spraying out the other end. There's going to be collateral damage there, there's just got to be. So how do you folks run this? It seems ridiculously easy to abuse from my point of view. Casting spells through a tiny hole in a brick wall comes to mind, with the mage actually 30m along the wall so blowing a panther round through it is still extremely unlikely to hit. |
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Aug 23 2007, 02:36 AM
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#2
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,246 Joined: 8-June 07 Member No.: 11,869 |
A mage definitely can target spells through mage goggles and other fiber optics. In SR4, spells do not "travel" but originate at the target. Therefore you need LOS through a non-digital optic (or ritual magic) to target the spell, but the spell itself "erupts" at the target.
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Aug 23 2007, 02:40 AM
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#3
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Deus Absconditus Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,742 Joined: 1-September 03 From: Downtown Seattle, UCAS Member No.: 5,566 |
With the exception of indrect combat spells, unfortunately. Indirect spells such as lightning bolt, acid stream, etc, do travel a path. Hence the ability of the target to dodge. It doesn't explicitly state this, but it says "Treat it like a ranged attack." While this is open to interpretation, I've always dealt with it as originating from the caster and travelling in a straight line.
These are the only exception to the otherwise clear-cut 'see it, blast it' rules. Mana bolts, balls, and all the other non-indirect spells will whack your target just fine. |
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Aug 23 2007, 02:40 AM
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#4
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...ok going out on a limb here...
Maybe what they need is spell ranges like that other game uses. After all, Mundane weapons have range limits/modifiers, why shouldn't spells? That would rein in magic a bit. After all, isn't the mage channelling the mana? Therefore it should come form the mage as it does in every other game system. |
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Aug 23 2007, 02:44 AM
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#5
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Deus Absconditus Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,742 Joined: 1-September 03 From: Downtown Seattle, UCAS Member No.: 5,566 |
If you have a copy of Grimoire I suggest using the range table for casting in that. Since vision modifiers affect spellcasting, it also wouldn't be hard to apply some of those to the casting. I believe the table went something like this:
0-100m: -1 100-200m: -2 300-500m: -3 500-1000m: -4 Or something. My grimoire is in a box in the closet, and I don't wanna dig it up at the moment. |
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Aug 23 2007, 02:49 AM
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#6
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...I'll have to dig my old copy up & houserule it in.
I still have an issue though with spells manifesting themselves at the target rather than from the caster. It contradicts all notions of magic that I ever read about in fantasy fiction or dealt with in other games. |
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Aug 23 2007, 02:51 AM
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#7
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Deus Absconditus Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,742 Joined: 1-September 03 From: Downtown Seattle, UCAS Member No.: 5,566 |
That's actually pretty much verbatim from 2nd Edition Grimoire or Awakenings - I forget which. Most of the evidence from 3rd and 4th support it being the case in subsequent editions, as well. Especially the ever popular section, "Why magic doesn't look like it does on the trid" - namely that most spells are very hard to see, if they can be seen at all.
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Aug 23 2007, 03:48 AM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 116 Joined: 5-May 02 From: Sydney Sprawl Member No.: 2,687 |
Well in the-game-that-shall-not-be-named a fireball originated at the target. You just point at the ground near them and boom… -Strobe |
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Aug 23 2007, 04:11 AM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 524 Joined: 12-April 06 Member No.: 8,455 |
Uhh, no. You launch a bead-sized projectile that flies straight out and blows up. Like an airburst grenade.
They even make you take an attack roll to fit it through tight spaces. |
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Aug 23 2007, 04:13 AM
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#10
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Target Group: Members Posts: 37 Joined: 9-February 07 Member No.: 10,958 |
Well, it was actually a tiny bead that flew unerringly to where the mage pointed and then exploded on impact. So it was still originating from the mage similar to a thrown grenade. Albeit significantly more lame. *Rolls eyes* |
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Aug 23 2007, 05:20 AM
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#11
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...which edition. As I recall, spellcasters always had the spell originate at their hand/wand/staff or whatever they used. |
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Aug 23 2007, 06:21 AM
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#12
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 524 Joined: 12-April 06 Member No.: 8,455 |
Heh... maybe they'll do that in 4E, since rumor has it that they're essentially copying the mechanics from MMOs like WoW.
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Aug 23 2007, 06:29 AM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 986 Joined: 29-June 07 Member No.: 12,093 |
Not well, too.
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Aug 23 2007, 10:24 AM
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#14
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,251 Joined: 11-September 04 From: GA Member No.: 6,651 |
If its trated like a grenade I wonder if its reasonable to say that the mage could lob it around the corner using the mage sight goggles like a smartgun link to aim around the corner.
Also, keep in mind casting through mage sight goggles has a penalty of something like -2 dice. |
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Aug 23 2007, 10:48 PM
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#15
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Target Group: Members Posts: 37 Joined: 9-February 07 Member No.: 10,958 |
Does somebody have a page number for that rule? |
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Aug 23 2007, 11:10 PM
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#16
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,246 Joined: 8-June 07 Member No.: 11,869 |
p. 324:
If you are asking for the magic grenade rules, there is no such thing. That would have to be a custom spell. |
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Aug 24 2007, 05:16 AM
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#17
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
i would argue that there isn't really any way to make "magical grenades" as a spell... unless we're talking about an anchored spell, that is. |
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Aug 24 2007, 09:48 AM
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#18
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,251 Joined: 11-September 04 From: GA Member No.: 6,651 |
So what is the point of origin of a spell... the eyes of the caster (which allows firing around corners with magesight goggles) or the hand of the caster?
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Aug 24 2007, 01:10 PM
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#19
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,246 Joined: 8-June 07 Member No.: 11,869 |
Neither. The spell erupts at the target and does not travel from the caster at all.
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Aug 24 2007, 02:17 PM
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#20
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 633 Joined: 23-February 06 Member No.: 8,301 |
Unless it's indirect. Then it most definitely does travel.
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Aug 24 2007, 03:10 PM
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#21
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Well, in the case of those Indirect Spells that do travel, I would say that the origin is the spellcaster's Aura, whatever part of him that may be the most convenient (keeping the LOS rules in mind). |
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Aug 24 2007, 03:14 PM
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#22
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,246 Joined: 8-June 07 Member No.: 11,869 |
No, the spell effect is travelling, not the spell. |
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Aug 25 2007, 03:10 AM
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#23
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,251 Joined: 11-September 04 From: GA Member No.: 6,651 |
Thanks for the clarification! :-)
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Aug 25 2007, 04:55 PM
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#24
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Target Group: Members Posts: 27 Joined: 17-August 06 Member No.: 9,151 |
Here's the table from the Grimoire for ranges.
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