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> Moleskin, The Dragon behind the Papacy?
Zhan Shi
post Aug 26 2007, 03:33 AM
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First, let me be clear: I'm most certainly NOT trying to trash anyone's religious beliefs. Just a few questions for the sake of game backround.


In ED, there was a religion called "Primaism", which was based on the Catholic church?

A dragon called Moleskin was behind it?


Has this dragon been active in SR? Some novel or sourcebook I may have missed?
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Jaid
post Aug 26 2007, 03:35 AM
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the Ancient Files are really handy for this sort of thing.
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fistandantilus4....
post Aug 26 2007, 03:36 AM
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QUOTE (Zhan Shi)
Has this dragon been active in SR? Some novel or sourcebook I may have missed?


Read the France chapter in Shadows of Europe very carefully. ;)
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Zhan Shi
post Aug 26 2007, 03:38 AM
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"Frag, I hate the socratic method." Ok....is Moleskin behind the Black Lodge?
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fistandantilus4....
post Aug 26 2007, 03:40 AM
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Ok, to be less crytpic ,read the LAVA section. And no, not the Black Lodge. Remember the posts from Synner about that?
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Zhan Shi
post Aug 26 2007, 03:47 AM
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No,but thanks for the info. I'm sure I'll be picking over that chapter with a fine toothed comb.
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fistandantilus4....
post Aug 26 2007, 03:49 AM
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I would just give it to you, but Synner and Otaku Mike made me dig for crap, so now I'm passing on the "fun". Let me know if you get stuck though. I'll put up some more of those fun PMs.
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Fortune
post Aug 26 2007, 04:02 AM
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I'm stuck! Put up more of those fun PMs please. :)
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fistandantilus4....
post Aug 26 2007, 04:03 AM
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Psh. You didn't even try. I will later. Give you a little time to put some effort in to it. For all you crazy kids in my game, karma if you can find the reference.
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Fortune
post Aug 26 2007, 04:07 AM
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Black Lodge stuff. :)

Gimme Karma! :P :D
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fistandantilus4....
post Aug 26 2007, 04:10 AM
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Psh I posted that again a week ago. Look for the Moleskin reference. Come on Old Man you can do better than that . :P :D
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Fortune
post Aug 26 2007, 04:17 AM
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This was what was requested. :P

QUOTE (Fisty)
And no, not the Black Lodge. Remember the posts from Synner about that?

QUOTE (Zhan Shi)
No,but thanks for the info.

QUOTE (Fistmeister)
I would just give it to you, but Synner and Otaku Mike made me dig for crap, so now I'm passing on the "fun".

QUOTE (Fistburger)
Give you a little time to put some effort in to it. For all you crazy kids in my game, karma if you can find the reference.


See? Keep up! :D
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Zhan Shi
post Aug 26 2007, 04:27 AM
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"the Mole's Well"....so, he has not woken yet? Or is he that nasty dwarf in charge of the seer's guild?
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fistandantilus4....
post Aug 26 2007, 04:28 AM
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QUOTE (Zhan Shi Original Post)
Has this dragon been active in SR? Some novel or sourcebook I may have missed?

I know, I know, it throws you off seeing me not on a thread tangent, but these are crazy times!
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fistandantilus4....
post Aug 26 2007, 04:30 AM
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QUOTE (Zhan Shi)
"the Mole's Well"....so, he has not woken yet?

There now see Fortune, taht wasn't so hard. Yeah that's the only reference he gives it. The decision was that there will already too many active Great Dragons, so he jsut owrked it in on the sly incase anyone wanted to run with it. Give me a sec and I'll dig out the PM.

*shakes head in dissapointment at Fortune*
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fistandantilus4....
post Aug 26 2007, 04:34 AM
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QUOTE (Otaku Mike)
Hey, I'm glad I could be useful to a fellow GM and SR fan. When I'm writing for SR, I'm aiming only for that.

BTW, a secret info just for you: The soil in Auvergne has special quality because it comes from deep inside the earth (and some other mysterious reason at the GM's discretion). When I wrote Auvergne, I always envisioned the thing as a mix of True Earth and True Fire (yep, the stuff from Earthdawn), diluted in regular soil. Some peebles even are less diluted than others (hence the possibility to use them as natural radicals for alchemy). No wonder weird things happen then, huh?

Also, but this is much less secret canon and more of a personal take on it: there is really a sleeping dragon under the Puy de la Taupe. And as the name of the volcano suggests it (Well of the Mole), it's Moleskin himself!  Now, what Lofwyr would want with him, hmm?

Again, have fun with your game! I envy you, you know? Thailand is very limited when it comes to RPG...

Mike


QUOTE (otaku Mike)
Sorry about the multiple replies. I always realize I forgot something after I clicked on send...

A bit more info on Moleskin: according to some sources and extrapolations, Moleskin could very well be the "father" of monotheism (ei christianity) in the 5th world. Opens the door for many theories, isn't it?
As for why he would still be under a volcano while other dragons are awake, this is a mystery even me I have no answer, for I left it deliberately open for GMs. My personal favorite is that he actually is in a magical prison, because other Dragons didn't like his "alternative" faith (which took much power from the Passions) and what it did to humanity (after all, dragonslayers of legends are devout christians, so something in the Moleskin experiment must have gone terribly wrong around the end of the 4th world).



Mike
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QUOTE (Otaku Mike)
Yeah, that's the fun part with open ended references in the fiction: you can do whatever you like of it.
Also, since I stuck that in the text at the last minute, I'm quite sure none of the other freelancer saw it, and I can virtually assure you that it's never going to be dealt with in Canon in the future, so you can do whatever you'd like to that part.
Have fun with the conspiracy theories !

Mike


QUOTE (Otaku Mike)
To be honest with you, I really had no plan for Moleskin. AFAIK, no freelancer has any plan for him either. He's not supposed to come back. Icewing/Ghostwalker already stole that trick.
I threw the reference in the most obscure way possible, aware that most would not get it. That was actually a conscious attempt to hide it. If someone catch the reference, they can go wonder what was this about and start the conspiracy theories in their game, and that's great. Otherwise, it's not something that will haunt back the majority of players that "didn't see it coming", simply because I doubt it will ever be developped.
So when I tell you to make your own story, it's really because I didn't give it much thoughts, given that it was meant to remain obscure and hidden.
This is something that the writters actually do quite often. Something that is referenced in a later book is very rarely meant to be (aside from the big overarching metaplot, which Moleskin isn't part), and usually quite different than the referenced authors had imagined.

I'm sure you'll come up with something. You can even discard the whole dragon under the volcano theory, because as it is currently, it's just a rumor, and is not canon (I mean, not validated by Rob as something we'll use later).

Mike
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Zhan Shi
post Aug 26 2007, 04:43 AM
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Many thanks, fisty. This would explain Leonardo's distaste for christianity: he knows its an invention by a dragon, while he is still a devotee of one of the ED passions. Why did moleskin do it it the first place? Purely as an experiment, or as "fun"?
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fistandantilus4....
post Aug 26 2007, 04:46 AM
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He's supposed to be the best diviner there is right? Maybe he just saw the writing on the wall. Get in on the ground level and all that. :)
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Zhan Shi
post Aug 26 2007, 04:53 AM
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Using the church in a manner similar to how Lofwyr uses SK. The group controls the world, but the dragon controls the group.
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fistandantilus4....
post Aug 26 2007, 04:55 AM
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There's good money in religion ya' know. :D
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Zhan Shi
post Aug 26 2007, 05:04 AM
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Another possibility...perhaps the group that's hunting dragons in SR4 is a remnant of the Cult of the Great Hunter in ED?
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Ol' Scratch
post Aug 26 2007, 05:25 AM
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Wasn't there mention of a dragon laired under the Vatican at one point?
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Zhan Shi
post Aug 26 2007, 05:35 AM
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I remember that in Theran Empire moleskin controlled primaism, but dont recall anything about where he laired, although it was said primaism's "pope" had to travel underground to meet with him occaisionally. Don't recall the name of the ED city where rome now stands.
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Zhan Shi
post Aug 26 2007, 05:36 AM
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BTW, fisty, thanks for the info.
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fistandantilus4....
post Aug 26 2007, 10:13 AM
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QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein)
Wasn't there mention of a dragon laired under the Vatican at one point?

Moleskin was under what was the church's main HW at the time. That wouldn't be the Vatican however in ED era since the basis of the religion he was espousing was that Christ wasn't born yet. So if you died, you'd go to hell for a little while. :)

Or did you mean in SR? In which case; not that I've heard of.
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