A question about adepts, see above Options

[Whipstitch]

That's really too bad, considering we're talking about a game where it exists. I'm pretty comfortable with the idea that someone can get good at martial arts combat without being physically strong... provided they have magical powers gifted only to a small percentage of the population and then channel all their time, energy and much of their power into being awesome at a form of magically augmented asskicking to the exclusion of other abilities. And even then they could still feasibly lose to a Troll who's merely pretty good but happens to catch them in a simple headlock.

[Kyoto Kid]

...well I tend to be one of those empirical types who likes having a basis for why things work the way they do other than "it's magic".

I love the technology and politics in the game. I find the magic side of it more an annoyance if anything else, particularly when it seems to trump the tech.

[Jaid]

[Kyoto Kid]

[Whipstitch]

I'm big on empirical evidence as well. I'm pretty much a card carrying secular humanist, when it comes right down to it. Even so, I tend to think applying lots of reason to Shadowrun's magic system is somewhat subversive. To me the most important thing is that the magic system and the other core rules be internally consistent.

[Kyoto Kid]

...for me the issue is when the two, Magic & mundane, cross each other. Magic almost always appears to win out which to me is an inconsistency. But again, that is a personal opinion of mine.

...but back to the topic of Adepts & Critical Strike.

[Arix]

Wow, I didn't expect that little question to spawn two pages of comments. Just for clarification, the character in question is not entirely focused on unarmed combat (thrown weapons are also a specialty), I just thought t hat he should be able to do decent damage with an unarmed attack if he got close enough to do so. And in fact, his unarmed spec IS subdual.

[Kyoto Kid]

...the way of things here on DSF. One simple little question can often spur pages upon pages of debate & tangents.

[Arix]

Well good, just means more information for me without having to ask for it. :D
Also, where would I find brass knuckles in the SR4 book? I looked in the equipment section, but they weren't there.

[Whipstitch]

That character sounds cool, as long as you're not taking Critical Strike and expecting it to boost the PC's subdual combat. I've gone the wrestler with Missile Mastery and Power Throw route myself before. It was perfect for the PC trio I was in; my wrestler was a dwarf with the bland and human looking qualities and he only had a Face/Hacker and a Mage skilled in Summoning as teammates. We could go in with virtually no weapons or incriminating equipment and still do OK if we absolutely had to fight. I'm not sure how well it works in a less discreet group, however. Being able to make quiet kills with minimal resources isn't that big of a bonus if you're being escorted by a knuckleheaded 9 foot tall troll with dermal plating and a Panther Cannon, after all.

As far as brass knuckles are concerned, they're not currently in the book, I'm afraid. I think it'd be a simple enough matter to simply allow the PC to threaten physical damage when using them, but add no other bonuses. It still wouldn't be in the same league as killing hands anyway; spirits don't care what you have on your knuckles as long as it's not a focus.

[Arix]

he rolls a decent amount of dice for subdual combat that I'm not overly concerned, his skills lean more towards tracking people down, and sneaking past security, particularly voice recognition systems

[azrael_ven]

It is funny how people get worked up over one-trick ponies. Even if you have an adapt with critical strike, he still needs to get close enough to use it. There are many different dimensions to combat and close combat is just one. If you have a character that specializes in one area, they will suffer in another. If they don't then the GM is not properly doing his job. That is why you have a team when you go do runs, because each person makes up a piece of the puzzle. This is not any different than the gun bunny discussion everybody likes to bring up. Just because you may not like someone's character concept does not mean it is cheap or broken. I have a troll adept that uses a bow that would give either build a run for there money because of the shear damage he can do. In a social situation he isn't so good. When it comes to technology he is clueless, he barely even knows how to use a comm link. When it comes to putting a hurt on spirits or nailing someone to a wall with an arrow he is your guy.

[Arix]

Yeah, this dude is not meant to use mostly unarmed combat, his focus is actually thrown weapons

[Kyoto Kid]

[Whipstitch]

[Glyph]

It's also funny how people will assume someone with, say, 18 dice in pistols is a "one-trick pony", when there are pleny of build points left for that character to have other skills and specialties. This is especially true for combat skills, where high Agility usually counts for much of the dice pool, and that same high Agility can be used with lots of other skills..

[Whipstitch]

I can definitely agree with that. I find it's only an occasional issue that crops up when new players shoot for the attribute hardcaps right from the start.